I am a right winger - convince me to become a feminist

[RadicalConservative]

As per subject, I vote Conservative, why? Because I believe in personal responsibility, I also believe that if you cannot afford something you should tighten your belt and save up instead of relying on credit which is ridiculously expensive i.e fiscal responsibility. I also believe in an individuals dignity and right to live whether that be a older person with a debilitating illness or a foetus in the womb. I lurk on FWR for a number of reasons and I would like to know and understand "feminist" issues however I find I am often dismayed at some of the "tribalism" and "hive mind" mentality on these threads. However if you can, please do try to educate me as to why women like myself should in your view be feminists, as it would seem that right wingers such as myself are only useful when we happen to agree on specific issues - see this tweet for an example: twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1068477170526445568

OP I would say that it is not necessary to completely agree on all feminist ideology in order to align yourself with feminists against the issues that you highlighted. Surely that is mutually beneficial?

Errrm

Really missing your point itsll

Could you explain why you are disgusted? As i was just responding to abitcrapper

The MM is well known on the FWR board to the extent that even ds2 knows about it

I would like to see society reduce the need for abortion - it is called contraception

No one thinks that woman in the link is irrelevant, why are you taking such a combative stance? What people are pointing out is that it's an odd link to post and demand whether feminists support it.

Where on earth have i said youre a man for goodness sake !

I didnt even bring the MM up!!

I wondered if the midnight misogynist was Toby Young.

Surely that is mutually beneficial? - I would prefer that humans interact on a meaningful level regardless of which sex they are. I personally believe that mutual respect has gone out of the window and is sorely in needed to being reintroduced into society as a whole

I used to enjoy the MM visits when up all hours breastfeeding. Then I started to get a bit bored of the same old-same old Ness of it.
Anyone got any ideas for tea tomorrow? Ds is poorly so the cupboards are a bit bare as I didn't get out to the shops.

Might be istanbul

Be feminist, or don’t. It’s not my job to convince you and it’s not your right to demand I do. Because the essence of feminism, I increasingly suspect, is the right of women, quite simply, to say NO

Yeah. I think I should have said NO to the demand to educate someone who is too lazy to even read the first page of threads (which would have convinced me to become a feminist already).

A woman who, looking at the numbers of sexual violence committed by men against women, and go unpunished, should ask herself why she isn't a feminist already.

You may have a bootstrap-mentality when it comes to poverty, but any rational woman knows that the sums of money needed to protect herself from rape are enormous. (I haven't looked what a team of two female bodyguards 24/7 would be, but I don't think I could afford it.)

The link to a Christian site is irrelevant. Wow did you really say that this women's experience is irrelevant? That is truly disturbing

Oh that’s good! Your link is irrelevant gets warped to her experience is irrelevant.

Note this technique: what is it designed to do? It puts the poster on the back foot, because now they feel they have to defend themselves against the accusation, so now, instead of the original point, the argument is derailed and the poster must expend their energy on proving they are not an awful person. It’s particularly useful to use against women because they are socialised to have to be nice.

Then as well you get to break out the righteous anger, yes? Poster says rape experience irrelevant! Nasty poster. Bad poster.

But your LINK is irrelevant. You dont get to pop on and say ‘look at this example of awfulness, I DEMAND you respond.’

Does anyone know what that technique is called by the way? The twisting of the posters words so they derail by defending? It’s a little DARVO but more subtle.

I am confused about the link to the Christian site.

I applaud the woman’s bravery in the circumstances just as I would any survivor. Women go through all sorts of difficult situations and have to make the choices which work for them in the aftermath. It is part and parcel of being female in this world.

No-one deserves abuse for the choices they make in such circumstances. Whatever that choice is. But it also does not show what the next person should choose, if that makes sense.

That is why I think women should be supported and I mean really supported to make the right choices for them. I would like to see that not only as a response to the suffering caused by male violence but because it is a basic human right. That woman should not have been raped. The focus should be on the perpetrator and the people who use rape as a rhetorical device in debates about women’s rights.

Feminism is NOT about the choices women make in the aftermath of rape; it is about the fact that women’s choices are held up and judged. It is about the fact that women have to make such choices.

Yes, read the responses in the morning. Maybe once you have slept on it, you will realise that asking women to justify and explain their beliefs is just another way of perpetrating abuse. Why not start from a position of being informed and respecting others’ beliefs?!?

Good night.

why are you taking such a combative stance? Perhaps because many Conservative women are treated with a lot of vitriol and disrespect? Have you considered it might be a defensive mechanism?

Oooh Toby young as the MM? Well there's a good theory!
I'll have to go read some of his work to see if the style matches.

Not all feminists think the same, I think this is an odd question.
I don’t agree with a lot of posters on FWR, but when it comes to things such as sexual assaults woman face, pay gaps, stereotypes, bad medical care, childcare etc were all (hopefully) on the same page.
For me being a feminist comes from not wanting to feel disadvantaged because of the sex I was born in. Imo The only way to change that is to change attitudes and talk about the things that disadvantage woman in the hope that people who do these things will wake up and realise or atleast it will be less acceptable. A lot of people irl see me as a feminist as I talk about these things a lot and attend marches etc.
Being a woman has disadvantaged me in life in ways that I didn’t realise would and I hope for future generations that will change.

Just waiting to be told what was disgusting about my post

Im slightly concerned it was the grin...

As a feminist who voted tory for many many years, i dont understand the feminists are left wing

I don't think life, or politics, are quite so simple and clear-cut. Many socialists - especially of older generations - very much believe in, and practice, fiscal restraint; having learned their values in the school of hard knocks. If you haven't got, you cannot spend. Having had very little in life teaches you the true value of 'having', I would argue. It can also teach you compassion and empathy.

At the same time, some of those who have suffered most can often be the harshest of critics. No excuses for lazy or irresponsible behaviour. And yet this does not necessarily make you right wing - because you still are able to retain the ability to recognise the larger perspective, and the system under which you operate and live.

We are not all born equal - in terms of opportunity and privilege. And most often no matter how conscientious one is - one often cannot rise to the status and position of those born in more materially fortunate circumstances. In this way - socialism is a materialist analysis of society; and a structural one.

Regarding the issue of human rights to life: I believe, through experience, that no matter how painful or difficult, a woman must have, and does have, the right to determine whether or not she chooses to become a mother; whether or not to continue with a pregnancy.

In this women must accept total responsibility for the choices and decisions they make. As we all must. If there is no external authority - imposing moral judgements -then we must all become truly responsible.

For me - a lot of right wing views and positions are incredibly judgmental and moralistic - and in a way which strips the individual of their own moral responsibility and authority.

bowl

We need the bewilderness

I bet she would know what its called, good reminder for me though

Wait

Ive just realsied i might be using conservative in a different context to the original OP

I am confused about the link to the Christian site. - Please do not be confused, the simple answer is that I am a Christian and as such would defend this women's right to make her own decisions and preferably without being attacked by pro-choice women

Women are treated with vitriol and disrespect. It's not just restricted to those who vote Conservative.

Why on earth do you think anyone here would approve of attacking her?!

I miss TheBewilderness :(

I thought you said gin not grin Rufus
I'm definitely voting for David Davies in the next election. I really admire him and his ability to speak out.
A blue rinse perhaps, or is that falling into the stereotype?

itisallgoibgtobefine but no-one in this thread said that this woman should not be entitled to make her own choice - that is why I am confused how it relates to the questions you were asking about feminism.

I am a rape survivor. I find it distasteful that you use a survivor’s experience as a rhetorical device in a discussion about feminism which posters have entered here in good faith. It is not related to the discussion. It is making people respond to things they did not say or do. I have had enough of that in my life.

I thought you were going to bed anyway, having stirred it up enough.