Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I am a right winger - convince me to become a feminist

302 replies

RadicalConservative · 01/12/2018 20:27

As per subject, I vote Conservative, why? Because I believe in personal responsibility, I also believe that if you cannot afford something you should tighten your belt and save up instead of relying on credit which is ridiculously expensive i.e fiscal responsibility. I also believe in an individuals dignity and right to live whether that be a older person with a debilitating illness or a foetus in the womb. I lurk on FWR for a number of reasons and I would like to know and understand "feminist" issues however I find I am often dismayed at some of the "tribalism" and "hive mind" mentality on these threads. However if you can, please do try to educate me as to why women like myself should in your view be feminists, as it would seem that right wingers such as myself are only useful when we happen to agree on specific issues - see this tweet for an example: twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1068477170526445568

OP posts:
ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 12:36

Anyway I've got more interesting things to be doing with my day now, so laters :)

*Weetabix" if you have questions you wish to discuss please start your own thread and I'm sure people will be happy to engage. I am not a feminist expert, just yet another individual :)

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 12:38

Yep ok probably shouldn't have used that term. However it was understood and I am not a hard line feminist so may well be somewhat contradictory! ,Grin

Right, must go :)

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 12:43

Mansplaining is a well understood term and phenomenon

Like feministplaining?

Where am I going with it? I will try again. I think it is utterly bizarre that feminists, who claim to want to break down stereotypes of how men and women are supposed to act , can at the same time hold the idea that posts aren't wriiten in a way they think women write. And that any poster who fails to use the approved / recognisable womanly sryle is mansplaining or a man.

I personally did not accuse anyone of being a man

I didn't say you did..

BertrandRussell · 02/12/2018 13:10

"The only thing you've said that makes me wonder whether you are a feminist is the idea that women should be supported in whatever decisions they make simply because they are women. I profoundly disagree with that and think it's non feminist position.

Really? That's interesting. Can you expand on that any more?"

Sorry- it was a while ago, but yes, I can. A choice is not feminist because it is made by a woman. A feminist will always consider the impact on other women of any choice she makes- whether it will be good for women in general. She may still decide to make the non feminist choice, but she is actively deciding to do it. And you can of course be supportive to women without supporting their choices. This is often an issue when talking about prostitution. You can be supportive of women in prostitution while being strongly opposed to the sex trade in general. Radical feminists are often accused of attacking prostitutes when they are in fact attacking the vile industry and the vile punters. Does this make sense?

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 13:16

BertrandRussell

It does make sense, yes.

I do get it in terms of committing a crime.

In other instances I'm not entirely sure.

I need to think about that some more. My gut feeling is that it should be on a more individual level. Should individual women make choices for women as a whole? I'm not sure that subscribe to that but I can see the point that you're making.

EarlyWalker · 02/12/2018 13:18

And that any poster who fails to use the approved / recognisable womanly sryle is mansplaining or a man.

I’ve been called a man a lot on these boards and the more I read the more I realise Its not that they actually believe you’re a man, it’s just classic bigotry really, if someone doesn’t agree with their POV, they see them as inferior to themselves so start calling them a man or similar to manipulate them into thinking their way of thinking is so wrong, they can’t possibly be a woman.

Justhadathought · 02/12/2018 13:20

@laswi...

Im, new to Mumsnet, and so have no knowledge of who has been posting for many years. I only post on the women's rights boards - mainly around transgender issues. I engaged with you and a couple of others in good faith, but found combativeness and dismissiveness.

You seemed, to me, only to want to have a go - probably because of the nature of the thread ('women who aren't feminists'). This is not why I came to the forum. And some people seem to have long standing forum 'friends' who really around and support each other.

The forum is quite clearly trolled by troublemakers now and gain. So, how was I to know the difference? I came for sisterhood and commonality of cause, not for pointless personal comments.

Would it be possible for you to let the misunderstanding go now? And not keep referring to, over and over, with the same group of friends.

The issues that are being complained about here, regarding other cliques of posters putting people down, are also apparent on this thread.

2rebecca · 02/12/2018 13:20

I'm suspicious of any threads that start off "convince me". That isn't how people talk to each other and is a very confrontational way to start a discussion.
I'm not in to brainwashing. People can read around the subject for themselves and make their own minds up.
Feminism means different things to different people. Most women are feminists of some sort as few women believe we are inferior to men and should have fewer rights than them and should be subjugated by them.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/12/2018 13:24

My gut feeling is that it should be on a more individual level. Should individual women make choices for women as a whole?

Women can certainly make individual choices, but that's just basic human rights. If all there is is individual choice, that's fine for the women who have access to all the choices they want, but completely useless for those who don't.

Babygrey7 · 02/12/2018 13:24

The OP came across as male to me

Hard to put the finger on why it felt like that...

The not-listening, the demanding we women explain ourselves, the moment of (male?) Rage, and the idea that being feminist is not compatible with being right wing....I guess?

Not saying OP IS male, just thinking out loud why it felt like that...
Anyone else?

ErrolTheDragon · 02/12/2018 13:26

There's another thread just popped up ' Where to start' asking for reading material... would probably be more productive to populate that?

There does exist somewhere a feminist reading list thread - not sure if here or on feminist theory - but I've not been able to find it.

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 13:33

I think just as it is important to recognise and call out male violence and coercive behaviour, I see nothing wrong in identifying online behaviour that appears male-type aggressive and coercive.
Maybe using the term mansplainy is coopting into reinforcing gender stereotyping, but the fact remains that it exists as a male-type unwelcome behaviour. So meh.

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 13:34

Sorry I skipped lots of posts so haven't read all the recent ones. Am now trying to actively parent! Grin

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 13:37

Justhadathought

Perhaps you could try apologising to the 2 posters you were so rude to. One in particular was , apparently, a long time poster on SEN, which you could easily have checked before your petulant posts about her. I'm not buying your "poor me, everyone was horrible to me" posts now. You had no difficulty being aggressive, confrontational and dismissive on that thread but you tripped up badly and are now trying to make out you were the wronged party.

I have no idea what you mean by "the same group of friends". I'm not aware before that thread of ever engaging with the 2 posters.

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 13:37

Sorry Errol good idea :) I'll leave this thread now. Other thread will be more productive when I get a minute especially as I really need to actually start reading some feminist stuff so I can post from some authority rather than out of my head! Grin

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 13:41

Not saying OP IS male, just thinking out loud why it felt like that...
Anyone else?

No. I can't take this sort of argument seriously. And it is used far too often in an attempt to undermine an opinion a poster doesn't agree with.

BertrandRussell · 02/12/2018 13:43

"Should individual women make choices for women as a whole? "

No. But they can look at their own choices in the context of the impact they will have on women as a whole.

BertrandRussell · 02/12/2018 13:44

I don't know whether the OP is a woman or a man. But I would stake my overdraft on he/she not being sincere.

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 13:49

Well there was the mix up over the names for example which had Datun and I scratching our heads.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine is, if I recall correctly a long standing, usually polite SNP supporter. The OP was originally ItsAllGoingToBeFine18

ErrolTheDragon · 02/12/2018 14:13

MNHQ really should find a way to block new names very similar to existing ones... doppelgängers are sometimes accidental rather than malicious (I've had one such, so did Bert) but they can cause confusion, and could arouse suspicion.

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 14:24

No. But they can look at their own choices in the context of the impact they will have on women as a whole.

I feel uncomfortable about this line of thinking though.

For many people there aren't endless choices so to try and make a choice for the benefit of womankind but which is detrimental to the individual? I don't agree with that and I don't think that feminism should be expecting that.

I don't know. I would hope that women could organise in such a way where individuals are supported in their choices but political pressure is brought to bear to change laws to offer women true choice.

Justhadathought · 02/12/2018 14:30

@Lasswia delicate( or not so delicate) air,

I'll not engage with you again. I find you too confrontational and unfriendly. I don't think we'll ever get on. That's how we got to this stage in the first instance.Your hostile tone.

I'm not familiar with how the forum works, and don't even know how to insert italics, let alone check other people's past contributions.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/12/2018 15:00

I would hope that women could organise in such a way where individuals are supported in their choices but political pressure is brought to bear to change laws to offer women true choice.

I don't quite agree with the first part of that...I wouldn't say unconditional support for all choices. Supporting women if they are in a position of no choice, sure. Supporting vulnerable women despite their choices, sure.

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 15:01

Advanced search on the user's name. It's perfectly easy. There is the word "search" and a magnifying glass to help you. You can search a username and find all their posts. You might find it useful the next time you decide that decide a poster is a man.

I read back the thread - I barely engaged with you at all on that thread and there was nothing remotely combative. I think you are a hypocrite given your style and tone of posting on that thread. You were happy to dish out sneers and insults to other posters.
.
I'm utterly fed up of this "ooh you are a man" argument trotted out as some sort of gotcha with no thought at all of how arrogant, stupid and often offensive it is.

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 15:04

I suppose I'm thinking more about confrontations that I see on MN so breast vs bottle feeding, SAHM vs WOHM, how people choose to dress...issues like these. I don't think in these examples that there are right or wrong choices or choices that are more feminist than others and so I don't understand why any criticism is levelled at either side in these examples.