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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

I am a right winger - convince me to become a feminist

302 replies

RadicalConservative · 01/12/2018 20:27

As per subject, I vote Conservative, why? Because I believe in personal responsibility, I also believe that if you cannot afford something you should tighten your belt and save up instead of relying on credit which is ridiculously expensive i.e fiscal responsibility. I also believe in an individuals dignity and right to live whether that be a older person with a debilitating illness or a foetus in the womb. I lurk on FWR for a number of reasons and I would like to know and understand "feminist" issues however I find I am often dismayed at some of the "tribalism" and "hive mind" mentality on these threads. However if you can, please do try to educate me as to why women like myself should in your view be feminists, as it would seem that right wingers such as myself are only useful when we happen to agree on specific issues - see this tweet for an example: twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1068477170526445568

OP posts:

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2018 11:31

I suppose it all depends on who is deciding opinions are ignorant.

Well, yes. I don't think any of us are immune from having negative views about other people's opinions, are we?

BertrandRussell · 02/12/2018 11:32

"Why does it have to be in a mocking or belittling way?"

It shouldn't be. As every single person on here seems to be agreeing. What do you want people to say?

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 11:33

What should be done is callout those individual attacks at the time, report etc, and not then ask everyone else to "just be nice"

My view of everyone being like it is obviously wrong and it's good to see a different side here. On other threads though, although it might only be a few posters doing the attacking, everyone else remains silent.

It does remind me of playground bullies - 1 or 2 are the ring leaders but no one speaks up for fear of being next on line for attack. That leaves the victim feeling isolated and vulnerable though.

That's how it feels on here at times.

BertrandRussell · 02/12/2018 11:34

wheetabix I have just seen your 11.20 post. I'm not ignoring it-I'll be back in an hour or so. I've got a bit of SAHPing to do.

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2018 11:35

Why does it have to be in a mocking or belittling way?

Because we're all human, Weetabix. We express ourselves in different ways. Don't expect people to walk on eggshells around opinions they believe are ignorant and damaging.

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 11:35

Maybe we need a friendship bench then for people questioning their feminist identity?

ErrolTheDragon · 02/12/2018 11:35

... Eventually the Op gets called out for being a troll and inevitably the thread gets pulled but actually the thread contained really good advice for anyone who might be genuinely in that position....

This is down to MNHQ policy on what to do with threads by posters who turn out to be trolls. Many times regular posters ask that the thread is left to stand, either because of the good advice or effort put into explanations etc or as examples of the commonness of some trollish tropes. If you disagree, ask MNHQ about it.

On the laundry lists, cake recipes etc... that started as a response to blatant troll threads started at times when MNHQ moderators aren't on duty. Maybe should be confined to reappearances by the Midnight Misogynist himself, if we can't manage to ignore them.

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 11:36

Bertrand - I'm very ashamed to say that cbeebies is doing my parenting today

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2018 11:37

Don't mention that on AIBU

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 11:39

. Oh god yes - I'd get absolutely slaughtered!

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 11:44

On the laundry lists, cake recipes etc... that started as a response to blatant troll threads started at times when MNHQ moderators aren't on duty

It just gets rolled out regularly now though in order to mock people.

I have many questions, half formed ideas, I'd love a place to discuss them, a sounding board to explore them. I thought this would be it.

I have never conformed to stereotypes and I see often on here posters saying that gender stereotypes need to be abandoned and that would only be a good thing in relation to the trans issue. Then I post something and get called a man. Why is that? That feels, to me, judging me based on a stereotype which is claimed to be not a good thing. How can a woman, not conforming to female stereotypes, then be judged to be a man by women who claim to want to abandon stereotypes?

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 11:50

Who has called you a man? Are you the op?
To be fair some posters come across as very "mansplainy" when they come on to ask questions about a topic which they say they know nothing about and then get aggressive and "victimy" when the more knowledgeable people signpost where more information can be found, which they ignore. Sorry that's a bit garbled, but hopefully you get what I mean. Anyway, it gets tiresome.

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 11:52

Oh in my opinion the baking lists etc aren't mocking. I don't intend it as mocking. I'm just trying to highlight how useless the thread has become.

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/12/2018 11:56

For me, I don't see the point in saying that a poster is a man based on what or how they're saying it, and it usually results in further derail when that becomes the focus of the discussion.

I can see sometimes though that when women are talking about their experiences as women, that men trying to say that experience isn't the case is annoying. In that situation or similar I can see that it's worth asking the poster's sex.

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 11:58

Justhadathought

@ Lasswi......

That is why being able to back up and articulate arguments in full is most often a good thing. it takes away from the often combative force of strong opinions aggressively asserted, which are then experienced as personal attacks

I don't know which of my posts you are referring to but demanding robust debate and then falling back on the "you're a man, I'm not speaking to you" line which you did to 2 genuine posters on another thread is poor debating.

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 12:01

Who has called you a man? Are you the op?
To be fair some posters come across as very "mansplainy" when they come on to ask questions about a topic

It hasn't happened on this thread, other threads it happens a lot.

What is "mansplaining" though? Isn't that applying a gender stereotype to a behaviour that is seen to be typically male?

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 12:06

To get back on topic I suspect being on the right may well be more helpful in assisting individual women to be confident and outspoken than being on the left.

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/12/2018 12:08

Why is that?

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 12:13

What is "mansplaining" though? Isn't that applying a gender stereotype to a behaviour that is seen to be typically male well yes

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 12:15

Probably because women on the right have to get used vitriol from the left. Even on MN, think of all the sweeping generalisations about never being friends with/ dating a Tory.

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 12:15

Why is that?

For me, being on the left involves taking decisions for the greater good. So individually you might lose but collectively society gains. So taxes for example. I would rather pay more tax (so individually I lose out) so that those in more need get better support and services.

For me, being conservative is more about the rights of the individual and being more selfish. Caring only for your own position rather than others who are less well off and blaming them for the situation that they are in.

To me, it's easier to make demands when you are concerned only about yourself than when you are more concerned with the greater good than your rights as an individual.

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/12/2018 12:24

What is "mansplaining" though? Isn't that applying a gender stereotype to a behaviour that is seen to be typically male well yes

The vast majority of posters on here are women. To me it seems ridiculous on the one hand to be arguing to break down gender stereotypes and on the other to accuse a poster who doesn't post in what is deemed to be a style appropriate for a woman to be a man or mansplaining.

It's the equivalent of the "Thatcher doesn't count, she was just using masculine traits" line which gets trotted by lefties who can't come up with any sensible answer to Tories 2 -Labour 0.

ABitCrapper · 02/12/2018 12:31

Mansplaining is a well understood term and phenomenon. And yes men are mostly guilty of it, although anyone can be. I said above that the OP reminded me of the MM due to the mansplaining style of the posts - dictatorial and aggressive and superior. I personally did not accuse anyone of being a man.
I'm not quite sure where you are going with this tbh.

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 12:32

It's the equivalent of the "Thatcher doesn't count, she was just using masculine traits" line which gets trotted by lefties who can't come up with any sensible answer to Tories 2 -Labour 0.
Precisely. And I say that as a leftie

Weetabixandshreddies · 02/12/2018 12:34

ABitCrapper

Just that the term mansplaining,and it's definition is adhering to stereotypes.

How is behaviour typically masculine or feminine, unless you use stereotypes?

Why isn't there just behaviour?

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