Will society accept transwomen ARE women in future generations?

[interestingdebatetoday]

Today I debated with a young woman I adore. I'm in my 30's, her in her 20's. She attended uni in a very liberal city and has studied psychology. Definitely armed to hold an opinion.

We disagree currently on several of the current topics re trans. I personally hold what's probably the norm on the feminist boards of mumsnet in my views.

It made me wonder though - she claims not to feel women are really impacted, uses unisex bathrooms as a norm, and obviously has been socialised to not find an issue in accepting transwomen as women. Is it possible that actually society will progress in a way that her generation down simply won't have the issues which I feel exist when trying to include transwomen AS women?

Can women be educated/socialised to a place over time where several generations on - we will be the old women with outdated beliefs and the world simply isn't bothered about the things which we were?

It has to go one way or the other really doesn't it? Either a big u turn and the idea that transwomen ARE women becomes laughable and delusional is mainstream and acceptable (as many of us might feel on the boards) OR transwomen ARE women and we were the ones who were wrong

It made me wonder... I was really suprised tbh. 10 years later made a huge difference to whether we felt our rights were under attack...

My university professor (who, at the time, I thought very old fashioned) predicted that in the future women would merely be the weak version of humans, having lost their special life-giver gift to technology.
I can kinda see what he was on about now.

If we are in the science fiction world in which men can get pregnant there’s no reason you can’t have an adamantium skeleton like Wolverine.

I would like a tail, retractable claws and the ability to chat to my cat please.

All the responsible manufacturers of blue M&Ms now stop production to research how that could have happened and if their own factory is affected, while those who don't care about customer health just dye their blue M&Ms yellow.

And now imagine how that changes the relative risk of getting poisoned.

This supposes that you are both willing and able to remove all the blue ones though.

Is that your ideal world?

I don’t really know what you are getting at there weetabix??

You are slowly starting to get on my nerves and I only joined the forum today. This is a feminist forum, why don't you read at least a tiny little bit about feminism before posting here?
Why not inform yourself about what feminism can, indeed, achieve without denying basic biology?

There's another thread running at the moment where some posters are saying they don't identify with the way feminism is portrayed on here and as such don't identify as feminists because of it. Examples were asked for so thank you for supplying one.

No one is saying we need to ‘eat rid’ of the blue ones just don’t pretend the blue ones are yellow.

Hmm, randomly lifting bits of conversations completely out of context and quoting them on entirely different threads to "prove" that a whole group of people are meanies... Where have I seen that tactic before?

No one is saying we need to ‘eat rid’ of the blue ones just don’t pretend the blue ones are yellow.

Well that poster said that all responsible manufacturers of blue M & Ms stop production so how does that translate to men then? You can't just "stop producing" men can you?

FermatsTheorem

Hhmm I haven't done it though have I? Despite being asked to provide links.

Nooooo you can’t.

But I don’t think that was what she meant

She was saying (and please correct me if I’m wrong PP) that it’s a problem with the blue m&m so we should look at how the blue m&ms are made not just pretend they are yellow.

So moving away from m&ms and back to people, the problem is Male violence. if trabswomen need to come into women’s spaces because they are not safe in the Male space then it’s up to men to look at that, it’s up to men to be less violent, to look at why Male violence exists and work out a way to minimise it.
And ironically when that happens that’s when women will welcome them into their spaces.

Well, how am I supposed to know that, given that I have neither the time nor inclination to stalk you across multiple threads. Your posts aren't that interesting. You mentioned possibly doing it; I drew attention to the fact that it was a frequently used tactic.

There's another thread running at the moment where some posters are saying they don't identify with the way feminism is portrayed on here and as such don't identify as feminists because of it. Examples were asked for so thank you for supplying one.

Weetabix

Well that poster said that all responsible manufacturers of blue M & Ms stop production so how does that translate to men then? You can't just "stop producing" men can you?

You really are very literal. It's an analogy about what happens if we abandon sex segregation but accepting the reality of male violence. It doesn't have to be 100% the same in every way.

'You really are very literal. It's an analogy...'

Wait, it wasn't about cannibalizing women?

*accept the reality of male violence

Well, literally, you said manufacturers should stop producing blue M and Ms in an analogy suggesting that men are the blue M and Ms so ....

R0wantrees

Thank you. I've never been given one of those before. I feel like I've made it now.

Weetabix
I think it may be the first time i've posted one.
I initially typed quite a long post but being aware of how such things get twisted decided to delete.

Important though to acknowledge your post.

I haven't read the full thread sorry! But I think the thing that will stop the acceptance of twaw is going to be heterosexual males. They might be quite happy to accept it up to the point of intimacy with a trans woman. They are never going to be attracted to trans women and that is a hurdle the trans activists will not be able to cross. Also, woke blokes stop short of having sex with trans women. Their right to want to have sex with biological females will always separate trans women from biological women. As long as there are heterosexual males trans women won't be considered women by society as a whole.

I see, if I want to be understood by certian level I have to user simpler language.

So, here it is: Female spaces are, by definition, spaces where females want to be among females, not males.

Any male, regardless of gender identity, who is so lacking in empathy that they would demand or enforce access to those spaces, is much more likely to be a danger than a man who goes where he knows he is welcome.

If one out of ten randomly choosen males is a rapist, then what do you think, how many out of ten males who have already proven they don't respect women's boundaries, are rapists?

*"... want to be understood by certain people", sorry.

If one out of ten randomly choosen males is a rapist

Do you have a link to this statistic please? That seems a remarkably high number

You are just as capable of using Google or any other search machine as I am
I believe in you!

Come on Hestia you're only allowed penis free spaces if you can prove to the last decimal place, beyond all possible doubt and argument, backed up by multiple sources all of which must be ideologically pure and preferably chosen by anti women activists. And even then you'll be lucky.

Many women want penis free spaces because of privacy, dignity and not wanting to undress around any male bodied people, even the ones they're related to. Women are like this, they have different preferences and needs and values. That's enough reason all by itself. It doesn't have to be proved. And incidentally it's a characteristic of toxic people that your 'no' means nothing until you give a reason they agree with.

Which is why all over the relationship boards people are advised not to say 'no because...' as this just opens up a way for someone who doesn't respect other people's boundaries to walk some more over yours.