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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's Hour features interviews with Professor Alex Sharpe and Professor Rosa Freedman as part of 'Sex & Gender' series **Thread title edited at OP's request**

471 replies

kesstrel · 25/11/2018 19:39

The topic is "The law on sex and gender".

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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FermatsTheorem · 29/11/2018 16:59

I'm not a mother myself (because I'm the kind of philosopher who can't get out of my dressing gown and frequently forget to feed myself)

Grin Didn't stop Elizabeth Anscombe (whose somewhat cavalier attitude to child rearing was legendary!)

But seriously, thank you for your awesome contribution to discussions on this.

Grauniad · 29/11/2018 17:41

Have emailed WH. Thanks for the address. I shall await excommunication, removal of radio and expulsion to the gulag. Meanwhile, I'd better get the dinner on.

Katvonblackdeath · 29/11/2018 21:02

Incoherent Alex!
We said you were really really incoherent.

The only thing I'd fear about you is that you'd sneeze on me. Grin

Women's Hour features interviews with Professor Alex Sharpe and Professor Rosa Freedman as part of 'Sex & Gender' series **Thread title edited at OP's request**
Bowlofbabelfish · 29/11/2018 21:10

Here’s an idea: basic scientific literacy + critical thinking

Now that IS dangerous ...

Bubonicpanic · 29/11/2018 22:16

Oh Alex, you are making up words as you go along... that always gets a laugh.

Be who you want to be, we don't care. We reserve the right to critique ideas, it's a necessary thing, especially in academia.

arranbubonicplague · 29/11/2018 22:22

I've looked for the phrase, "really, really dangerous" on this thread and not found it. I did find a phrase about #nodebate as a tactic and people who use it.

NB - I can only search on text, not screenshots. I've no idea if the phrase occurs on other threads.

Katvonblackdeath · 29/11/2018 23:07

So it's not in relation to their hilarious cisssssing on woman's hour. Shame.

I do think it's dangerous to go down the route of not being honest with a sexual partner though. It's about consent. The case in that post is grim.

merrymouse · 30/11/2018 11:51

Agree Kat.

Also why wouldn’t an idea be dangerous? - e.g. in America the idea that Trump’s behaviour isn’t wrong because all politicians are corrupt anyway.

LikeDust · 30/11/2018 13:33

Well you know what narcissists are like - they think of themselves as dangerous like a tiger with powerful muscles and big teeth and claws, rather than dangerous like a crooked tour guide sending a trusting group of holiday makers onto a rotten rope bridge.

Chaotica · 30/11/2018 17:59

Dangerous in the sense of effectively being an apologist for (or advocate of) rape.

No-one should be listening to Sharpe's views because her arguments are so abysmal. But they are.

arranbubonicplague · 05/12/2018 00:05

twitter.com/AlexSharpe64/status/1070018613271252992

Stay focused. Behind arguments about fairness in sport, skewing of violent offending stats, unnecessary NHS smear tests ... lies a desire to exclude TW from women-only spaces and, of course, from the category 'woman' altogether. It is all in plain view ppl.

Ereshkigal · 05/12/2018 00:29

It's never not been in plain view, you silly person.

Ereshkigal · 05/12/2018 00:34

It's not personal. Women have rights to privacy and dignity in female single sex spaces. That's all. And we know males don't change sex.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 05/12/2018 00:35

Duh Alex. Are you really just realising that women are saying no to males in female spaces?
Though it isn't us excluding you, it's that terfy cow mother nature.

I actually can't include two opposite assertions in the same definition without invalidating at least one.
My witchy terfy magic ain't that strong.

arranbubonicplague · 05/12/2018 04:08

It's never not been in plain view

Exactly, there's no concealment as WPUK has helpfully laid out the 5 Demands and published them, in plain view, on a website and they cover the topics that Alex Sharpe mentions:

Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act to be allowed to take place and for women’s voices to be heard.

The principle of women-only spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended.

A review of how the exemptions in the Equality Act (which allow for single sex services, or requirements that only a woman can apply for a job such as in a domestic violence refuge) are being applied in practice.

Government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces.

Government to consult on how self-declaration will impact upon data gathering – such as crime, employment, pay and health statistics – and monitoring of sex-based discrimination such as the gender pay gap.

womansplaceuk.org/our-5-demands/

deepwatersolo · 05/12/2018 08:38

Behind arguments about fairness in sport, skewing of violent offending stats, unnecessary NHS smear tests ... lies a desire to exclude TW from women-only spaces and, of course, from the category 'woman' altogether.

Yeah, Alex, and now do your name a favor, be sharp and wrap your head around why the one does not exclude the other, but on the contrary explains it.

R0wantrees · 05/12/2018 12:04

Prof Rosa Freedman comment last nght after WPUK meeting:

"THREAD: The excellent @ WomansPlaceUK have put on many meetings in the last year to discuss women’s rights, and tonight I had the great privilege of speaking at one of those meetings. We discussed the law relating to sex & to gender identity. In many ways it was uplifting to be

part of that meeting. I am a Professor of Law, tenured, protected in terms of being able to speak in a respectful manner based on specific evidence, and supported to undertake research on topical and timely issues. That has not protected me from the harassment & abuse dished out

by the transactivist lobby. This week I picked up my post & received three more hard copy letters (separate to the daily emails I now receive) from staff and students at universities in the UK and beyond who are scared to express their views for fear of stigmatisation. This week

I found my office door covered in urine, including some that had seeped under the door, and I spent time cleaning it up because I could not bear the smell or the shame of what had happened. Last week I discovered criminal damage explicitly encouraging me to leave the University

because of my views that a woman is defined by law as biological not psychological. I have been attacked and vilified personally and professionally on social media by a senior Professor at another University who keeps threatening me with action (legal and/or re my employer), and

have had my reputation spuriously and perniciously smeared by the local LGBT charity who seems to have provided the University with wrongful advice on the trans policy (thankfully it can and ought to be changed) and academics spearheaded by @ natachakennedy at Goldsmiths (an

institution that is not a leading light on women's rights). Tonight I met other academics who are being harassed in their workplace for setting out views based on specific evidence (i.e. doing their jobs). We all go to work to do our jobs -- and we are pretty damn good at doing

the research, educating, & administration that comes with the job -- yet we are being demonised, harassed, and targeted for expressing opinions based on the expertise for which we were hired and for why we are revered. This evening I was followed by students on campus, and ended

up hiding behind trees because I was scared for my physical safety. I have been open about being a survivor of sexual violence, despite which young male-bodied persons have seen fit to abuse me verbally about rape or to follow me in the dark into secluded spaces. It is now 3.30am

and someone / some people are continuously calling my phone from an anonymous number, & when I answer I am laughed at and told that I am a ‘TERF’ who ‘should be raped and killed’. If this is how a University Professor is treated, little wonder that women who work in jobs without

protection regarding academic enquiry – e;g; factories, shops, schools, restaurants, hospitals, and beyond (where there are fewer / no protections in place in employment contracts and policies) -- feel unable to speak up to protect women’s rights. Welcome to 2018, where people

have drunk the Kool Aid, or are looking to make a career on the back of the Kool Aid, or are just looking for a reason to bully and berate women who speak up (particularly those with expertise). [Good night]

Postscript: I think universities ought to consider sending communications to students & staff about appropriate behaviour. Peaceful protest is a legitimate part of freedom of expression. Harassment and abuse ought never to be tolerated. Employers have a duty of care to employees"
threader.app/thread/1070158128837246977

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3443107-Shocking-bullying-of-gender-critical-law-professor-Rosa-Freedman

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3425184-Womens-Place-event-in-Reading-4th-Dec

Bowlofbabelfish · 05/12/2018 12:09

That is absolutely dreadful and criminal harassment, surely?

So: what are the university doing to protect her?

Or is it just students who need protecting from scary ideas (in case they start thinking...)

Wine for Prof. Freedman. They are doing it because you’re right, and they’re scared of you.

Ereshkigal · 05/12/2018 18:42

 for Prof. Freedman. They are doing it because you’re right, and they’re scared of you.

Absolutely.

arranbubonicplague · 10/01/2019 20:55

Alex Sharpe's objection to women's excess of sexual autonomy with bonus Sally Hines - a thread exploring this from Radical Hag:

A couple of thoughts on the Women's Hour debate: "Cis" women are at absolutely no risk from transwomen as they have been using our spaces forever, according to Alex Sharpe, obsequiously amplified by Sally Hines. Us silly women are seeing monsters where there aren't none.

twitter.com/radicalhag/status/1067902704255754241

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