Allow prostitution in care homes

[JoggerBottom]

This reads like a spoof article, but the information has come from Royal College of Nursing guidance:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6425741/Sex-guide-care-home-residents-advises-nurses-help-OAPs-download-PORN-use-sex-toys.html

What about nurses, other residents and the prostitutes. I still thought that prostitution was illegal in the U.K.?

Sorry if the link isn't clicky, I'm not very tech savvy.

Got a funny feeling of de ja vu...

If it's such fun, do it for free, in solidarity with the vast majority of prostituted women who are co-erced into it.

No-one is stopping you, or anyone else having sex. I'm just saying, allowing a women's body to be rented for sex should be as illegal as allowing that woman's organs or blood or eggs to be bought, of for her to be rented to incubate a baby.

And since porn is generally depictions of people being paid to have sex, I feel it falls under the same umbrella. Go to the front page of the biggest porn sites, read the video titles, see how healthy you think that is for women, men and society in general to have people spoken about and abused like that, for men's pleasure.

Micke to continue your last paragraph -- especially in light of the fact that the average age that boys start watching porn is 10 years old.

Oh, it’s the ‘I enjoy sex work so it’s fine, even though for every one of me there’s a million other people, mainly women, who are being exploited and violently raped’ argument again. Well forgive us for putting the safety of those other million people/women above one person who by their own admission has the freedom to choose whether they are exploited or not. Mememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe. And please forgive us for giving a shit about those people, mainly women, who don’t wish to be props or facilitators in other people’s sexual wants, or facilitate in the exploitation of others.

A quiet wank with a do not disturb sign on the door, fine. Please can you pass me that bag/box, oh and please can you put the dnd sign up on your way out? Fine. A vibrator is made of plastic, so that isn’t rape btw. Please can you find me a prostitute? Erm... no.

A woman I know who’s a care worker was telling me a couple of weeks ago about a man who lives in one of the care home flats who crawls around the floor naked and intentionally shits all over the floor and just leaves it. She said he’s always wanking to porn on the telly when they go in, and he doesn’t stop, even after being asked. A lot of the care workers refuse to work with him now because of his behaviour. I bet he’d like to have a prostitute arranged for him.

Tbh the prostitution yes/no argument is one different people will have different opinions on and as I said upthread probably not appropriate in a care home anyway.

It's a head in sand stance to take to imagine you'll ever get rid of prostitution as a whole. The more you try to stamp it out, the more consenting women will leave, driving it further underground so the only people participating are men with money who aren't afraid to go to prison and women who don't have a choice. Regulating and normalising are the safest routes. If prostitutes are respected, they have more safety.

Regarding do it for free, I am- as I said upthread, I was a pro sub. Now I'm in two d/s relationships. But ironically, my older boyfriend, the one in his mid 60s, was one of the reasons I stopped playing for cash.

Anyway. This prostitutes in care homes essentially boils down to one's own view of prostitution. I don't think it is some vast, alien, pitiable concept because I've been there. I know women are exploited, but I don't think the solution is to make it more illegal. If it were opened up, the only women involved would be ones through choice, and ones who weren't would be guaranteed more chances of being heard, believed and helped. And none of them would be hired for clients by care workers because that still wouldn't be appropriate.

I don’t think anyone believes that prostitution can be completely eradicated. The general radfem position is pro Nordic model.

Regulating and normalising are the safest routes. If prostitutes are respected, they have more safety.

Do you have any evidence of this?

The leeds zone seems to have made life more dangerous for any woman in the area, the german mega brothels have resulted in women being exploited on a massive scale for ever-reducing prices, and even Amsterdam is pulling back on the red light district.

and that's just from illegal violence - what about work H&S? The laws around body fluid contact and disposal make prostitution all but impossible - or are you saying that it's OK, that the woman doing the job should be less protected than a cleaner employed to wash the sheets after?

Or safety of customers - what insurances are prostitutes required to have under a regulatory framework? My dental surgery's chairs are covered, and wiped down between clients - and we're fully dressed at the dentist - what hygiene processes are prostitutes required to follow to ensure a similar level of safety for their clients?

"If it were opened up, the only women involved would be ones through choice"

"The only ones..."

But then

"and ones who weren't would be guaranteed more chances of being heard, believed and helped"

"and ones who weren't...

Contradicted yourself within seconds there.

I was thinking only this morning that there needs to be another word for prostitute, one which makes the nature of the transaction more clear.

‘Sex worker’ is far too anodyne and implies that everyone selling sex has the same level of choice.

‘Traded female’ or ‘traded male’ is my idea so far.

That's reducing an entire human being to their genitals.
I never sold myself, I never sold my body, I sold an hour of time for an agreed-upon activity or two.

Anyway I'm hiding this thread now because the mumsnet echo chamber is coming into effect again.

Yes, sex worker isn't right at all - workers have many rights and responsibilities, none of which are recognised for prostituted women.

I stick with prostituted women - making it very clear what they are being traded for.

All legal prostitutes to wear rubber gloves and hazmat suits! Healthy and safety in the work place must not be scrimped!

I never sold myself, I never sold my body, I sold an hour of time for an agreed-upon activity or two.

OK. And what about the rest of the prostituted women?

As far as I am aware, one of the recognised issues for prostitutes is that the nature of the work does start to impinge on the whole self, on self-esteem and sense of identity.

The term ‘traded woman’ is meant to bring people up short, to get away from the ‘happy woman choosing to engage in fun sex’ narrative.

Oh, brilliant irony @Rixera, refusing to continue to debate whilst also accusing us of being an echo chamber. I’m not sure you understand what an echo chamber is. But dissenting views are welcome and encouraged here - dialogue, discussion and debate is now progress is made.

Nimco Ali shared this on Twitter recently - I don’t know where the statistic is taken from, and you’d need to adjust for population size, but ~70 women killed in 16 years under legalisation vs 0 women killed in 19 years under Nordic model is pretty compelling on which strategy is safer for prostituted women.

@Bowlofbabelfish I remember that thread. You summed it up perfectly.

It's an utter disgrace, any normalisation of buying sex is a disgrace.

Why is it that people come on here with a view point that they know will be disagreed with by the majority of users, then spend a short amount of time trying to convince us that we’re wrong, then flounce when we fail to fall into line complaining we’re an echo chamber? This is a feminism board, so it’s not really that surprising that we find the exploitation and rape of women unpalatable. Honestly I don’t know what these people want or expect. If prostitution was that fun or empowering then it wouldn’t be prostitution, would it? Like I said above, for every one woman who freely chooses to sell their body for kicks, there’s a million women who don’t. We’re hardly bothered about the one woman, who after all, can fuck for free if she likes, when the other million women are forced, coerced and beaten into it. They are not choosing prostitution by their own free will, and sex against a person’s own free will is rape. Feminists do not condone rape, and we do not condone the advocates and facilitators of rape. Making money out of one’s cunt is not a human right. HTH

Rixera you will never convince me that using men's fucked up sense of entitlement to penetrate women's bodies (as long as they have the money to over ride consent) is a good thing for individuals and for society. Never.

I have a bit of knowledge on this

prostitution in all UK jurisdictions is legal if the prostitute/sex worker and the "client" are aged 18 or over and it all takes place privately indoors unless it's in a brothel.

A brothel means there is more than one prostitute working there (doesn't even have to be at the same time).

Street prostitution is illegal (except for select "tolerated" zones) whether you are selling or the one buying or looking to buy (kerbcrawling). this was criminalised in 2007

Advertising sexual services is legal. Pimping is illegal- this pretty much means doing anything for a sex worker in return for payment this includes making a website or taking photos for a website etc

porn is legal as long as long as consenting adults are involved. in 2009 a law was brought in to criminalise extreme porn this includes things like bestiality

just out of interest do old people care homes have WiFi the residents can access on their own devices?

I was in a psychiatric ward in the past, they have free WiFi the patients can use. There is a porn blocker but I did overhear other residents tell each other about porn sites that weren't blocked they could access

Anyfucker that's the thing isn't it? All this jumping through hoops about the one in a thousand happy hooker is a massive distraction exercise, aimed at shifting the focus away from men. Again.

When the real question is "What sort of a complete and utter scumbag do you have to be to want to use another human being as a wank sock when you know that human being may be acting under duress?"

Indeed, FT.

It always comes back to the women . We even get pitted against each other constantly. This is one occasion where it's absolutely the point to say what about the menz

If prostitution is empowering, why aren't rich, famous, powerful women doing it? Surely loads of people would pay good money for sex with Celeb X or Popstar Y.

Why aren't more men doing it would be a more pertinent question.