369 transpeople murdered? Channel 4 checked.

[WTFIsAGleepglorp]

An actual proper analysis of ONS statistics

Whodathunk?

If MN ran a thread for every woman murdered each day we’d crash the internet.

If MN ran a thread for every woman murdered each day we’d crash the internet.

Do you mean globally? If so, you're probably right!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46292919

So given that it's now official. That certainly in the UK being trans is the safest "category" to be in then why isn't anyone standing up and admitting they were wring. The whole basis of all this was a lie.i mean it was bad when elderly black lesbians were turned into oppressors of middle class white men but this....this proves it's outright Lies.

I don't think most of the women here are haters, I don't even think they're categorically wrong in many cases (although in some cases I definitely do), but I do think that for many of the arguments the founding assumptions are incorrect, the stats are misleading, the logic is flawed and the outcome will be counterproductive to the advancement of female liberation.

We keep telling you this.

That certainly in the UK being trans is the safest "category" to be in then why isn't anyone standing up and admitting they were wrong

That isn't what the fact check article is saying though; where are you getting that it is the safest "category"? The article itself says that because the number of trans people is so small it would take only 1 or two murders to double or triple the rate; it's hardly a stable figure when you take into account expected variation year on year (accurate forecasting is my job).

And in fact it says it would appear trans people are less safe when it comes to domestic violence.

That's probably why no-one is saying they were "wrong". The fact check is at pains to point out that there is no certainty in relation to these stats.

We keep telling you this.

I love this idea that when I disagree with you, you're "telling me". I'm sorry, I've never been the sort of woman who will be told, particularly not on those frequent occasions when I'm confident what I'm being told is wrong.

But let me get this straight, you keep telling me you think what I wrote is true of my arguments? Well in exchange I'm pretty confident it's true of yours. That's, you know, sort of the general idea of disagreeing.

They are liars . Face it.every stat they use to guilt people into submissions is proven to be a lie.

Do you mean globally? If so, you're probably right!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46292919

As has been posted a couple of time on this thread already!

As Aspie commented, other posters have said that, told you that!

I know tone is a major part of misunderstanding but Rat seriously, you back track a little, jink left, jink right and then pop back up and mirror previous posts. Exchanging posts with you is a bit like juggling jelly!

Nobody here is saying they were wrong because nobody here has posted anything that is factually incorrect!

in fact it says it would appear trans people are less safe when it comes to domestic violence.

I'd take that more seriously if I hadn't noticed how often they pop up on twitter shouting about literal violence when what they really mean is someone refused to comply with their compelled speech demands. I hate being made to feel so cynical in my old age, but that's the problem with crying wolf every time a chihuahua yips at you.

Exchanging posts with you is a bit like juggling jelly!

I feel the same about you! I feel like you interpret my posts with your own projections, then think I'm the one who's readjusting when I try to clarify for you! It isn't me who's changing position, it is your interpretation of my posts that is shifting.

Nobody here is saying they were wrong because nobody here has posted anything that is factually incorrect!

...except Giles literally said "certainly in the UK being trans is the safest "category" to be in". Which is factually incorrect. It is neither "certain" nor definitively "the safest".

I hate being made to feel so cynical in my old age, but that's the problem with crying wolf every time a chihuahua yips at you.

I've heard that said so many times about women, I actually couldn't conscience saying it about another group. Perhaps a few nuts on Twitter are terribly precious, but I think it's the same kind of damage done to women when you extend that to minimise the reported violence against the whole trans community - all hundreds of thousands of them - just because of your perception of a few "delicate" trans people on Twitter.

Again, it's sad. The exact same words were used about women and their daily struggles.

It's interesting that the article the BBC ran on the women killed in one day, they specifically looked for murders that were gender based. What frustrates in the violence against trans people narrative is that when a trans person is killed, it is assumed to be because they are trans. The two murders in the UK in the last 4 years don't seem to have been because they were trans.

The worst country in the world by far (in terms of total murders) is Brazil. But that is a situation with high overall violence, a lot of prostitution, LGB still being very stigmatised and abused etc. It is a horrible situation indeed, but it is unhelpful to just say they were murdered for being trans.

The two murders in the UK in the last 4 years don't seem to have been because they were trans.

I'm only familiar with one of them, but that was definitely a result of the victim's being trans - and that being fetishised and also seen as "less than human" as the perpetrators didn't even think she'd be missed!

It's interesting that the article the BBC ran on the women killed in one day, they specifically looked for murders that were gender based.

Well that's what they say, but the bar they've set for something counting as being "killed because they were female" is...

"The figures for "gender-related killings of women and girls", or "femicide", are collated using the criteria of intimate partner/family-related homicide."

I suppose you can only classify the motivation of the crime by looking at who the perpetrator was. I guess the trans murder statistic uses the bar of "the perpetrator was not trans", which I suppose is understandable. Both bars are a blunt instrument though, clearly.

Nope.

Femicide is specifically the murder of women.

Homicide is the murder of men.

They may or may not have been murdered because they were women, girls or female infants, but the crime is femicide regardless of motive.

Was that to me WTF? If so, I don't understand the point you're making.

They may or may not have been murdered because they were women, girls or female infants, but the crime is femicide regardless of motive.

The quote in my post is FROM the BBC article. You might think femicide is singularly the murder of any female regardless of motive, but the BBC clearly thinks it has a more particular meaning as well.

Take it up with them if you think they're using the wrong word for it (and Women's Aid, and the Oxford Dictionary, <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/77421/1/WHO_RHR_12.38_eng.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjzsajGl_XeAhULDMAKHRrqCnIQFjAPegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw2qgxT_0XbJL85CQLavxHPb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the World Health Organisation, Wikipedia...)

Oh all right then, you sealion, you.

The trans gender woman was murdered as she took a feminine role.

Murdered by someone who thought so little of her that she was nothing to him and so he thought no one would miss her.

More than half of all the women murdered were murdered for the same reason.

They were commodities bought and sold between families, too expensive, bore girls instead of boys, were an inconvenience, had been raped and therefore brought shame on the family, had asked for a divorce - you name the reason.

They were murdered in societies where women are considered so much lesser than men, it's not thought of as much of a crime to kill them.

Welcome to female privilege....

Fuck sake, are you not capable of talking to another woman without chucking in a dismissive insult? Better to be an informed "sea lion" than ignorant, and arrogant to boot, as you so assuredly corrected me on the definition of femicide. Wrongly.

Naomi was not killed for "taking a female role", she was killed for being trans. The man who met her specifically fetishised trans women. He would not have met (and killed) her had she been a natal woman.

You have access to the Internet, read things before you post your ilinformed misinformation please.

And frankly you have a lot to learn to be welcoming me to "female privilege". I'll assume your apology for the femicide thing btw, as I don't expect it will be forthcoming.

But let me get this straight, you keep telling me you think what I wrote is true of my arguments? Well in exchange I'm pretty confident it's true of yours. That's, you know, sort of the general idea of disagreeing.

The difference is our stats match reality and our logic is, well, logical.

in fact it says it would appear trans people are less safe when it comes to domestic violence.

If that’s true, what does it say about the partners of transwomen?

Because it’s not ‘terfs’ who are in domestic relationships with transwomen.

So there’s something clearly wrong with a large number of men engaged on domestic relationships with transwomen.

It is men who believe TWAW who are commiting domestic violence against transwomen.

Now, a lot of people have talked about AGP as being a fetish so why aren’t we discussing the attraction towards transwomen as a fetish? And one that seems to correlate with domestic violence by your own admission that transwomen are more likely to be victims of DV?

I was writing my comment while you posted this:

Naomi was not killed for "taking a female role", she was killed for being trans. The man who met her specifically fetishised trans women.

So let’s talk about this.

Let’s talk about how the fetishistic attraction towards transwomen - both in domestic relationships and prostitution - is so prone to ending in violence.

The partners of TW and the punters who seek them out are not being radicalised by Germaine Greer. They see themselves as ‘woke’.

So stop scapegoating women who simply don’t believe TWAW and look at the kind of people who do.

Once a group of people, be they women, prepubescent, pubescent children, Jews, trans people, take your pick, become objectified, they are considered 'lesser'.

Despised. Tools. Toys. Commodities.
Disposable.

They are scapegoated, fetishised and are 'used'.

Those who believe that, are happy to kill after they've got what they wanted.

The killer of Naomi Hersi didn't believe TWAW, he didn't believe she was a person at all.

Just an item to be used and disposed of.

Just as many killers of women do every day.

Femicide is the killing of women.

As Women's Aid says on their website

"Femicide is generally defined as the murder of women because they are women, though some definitions include any murders of women or girls."

I'm only familiar with one of them, but that was definitely a result of the victim's being trans - and that being fetishised and also seen as "less than human" as the perpetrators didn't even think she'd be missed!
I don't see how you can know that that was as a result of her being trans.

I haven't been here for months and months

Bullshit.

Glad someone else noticed, Disrespect

Although, to be scrupulously fair, Rat has been on many Trans posts recently but has been quiet in FemChat! So if you use Active/15 minutes it comes to much the same thing!

Hersi was killed because Hersi’s murderer was a violent, sexually abusive, arrogant, duplicitous man who found himself a victim through what he assumed was an anonymous method.

I don’t know Hersi’s background but Juno Dawson used the descriptors, ‘trans’, ‘black’, ‘muslim’ & ‘poor’ in a Pool article and there was court testimony as to drug use - I think (for once!) we could accurately use the term ‘intersectional’ here, as in there are a number of intersecting factors that, sadly, made Hersi statistically vulnerable to violent crime.

I’d like for everyone to be safer (well, for men to be less violent, ideally) but we won’t achieve that if we don’t look at bigger pictures.

Otherwise we’re just in ‘women and their silly eggshell skulls’ territory.