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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

609 replies

drum123 · 21/11/2018 20:06

Apologies if there is already a thread about this. Channel 4, 10.00 tonight. 'Stella O'Malley considers the huge rise in numbers of young people embarking on gender transition, through the prism of the gender identity issues she experienced when she was a child.' According to The Times no TRA groups were prepared to contribute to this . Stella feels this may be because she was a tomboy as a young girl, (even insisting she was a boy until she hit puberty), and is now a confident, mature woman who believes that nowadays she would be pressured to go down the transition route. Sounds like it will be worth watching.

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Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/11/2018 20:03

Wait what???

Why are we talking about esther on this thread??

I thought we were on the esther thread

How many threads does esther need Grin

Sorry for my confusion

Electron1 · 25/11/2018 20:11

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=zagria.blogspot.com/2015/02/georgina-somerset-19232013-part-ii-wife.html%3Fm%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjQyMPRqPDeAhUQx4UKHUBPCtYQFjAMegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2JskqPD1OUUOlfYsOwa3NZ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=zagria.blogspot.com/2015/02/georgina-somerset-19232013-part-ii-wife.html%3Fm%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjQyMPRqPDeAhUQx4UKHUBPCtYQFjAMegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2JskqPD1OUUOlfYsOwa3NZ

Just to get off the subject of Betts, I was reading up about whittle and came across this quite forthright woman. Interesting stuff. It's records like this that clarify how fake all the Stonewall queer theory gender identity stuff is.

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 26/11/2018 14:48

Just catching up with this now. I felt for the Mum if the autistic girl who wanted to be a boy. Parents now have such a minefield to tread in all this. I thought she expressed this well with “when my child is 25 will they say....”

It must be so hard to get things right when a child feels this way, I thank God my son doesn’t have the same issues (also autistic).

Nice to see Posie but my goodness what an awful situation to be in during that event. Terrifying to watch let alone be part of an event being protested like this.

KayM2 · 26/11/2018 22:25

It really WAS scary; even though we know that it was a while ago and major injuries had not happened. Anyone would have been on edge.

TBH., it will make people think twice about attending any such meetings. Seriously where have we got to when that sort of thing is even semi-tolerated?

Were there arrests and charges?

R0wantrees · 26/11/2018 22:30

TBH., it will make people think twice about attending any such meetings. Seriously where have we got to when that sort of thing is even semi-tolerated?

You underestimate women kay

It was covered at the time. Julie Bindel had video footage of the idiots on the stairs.
Women carried on meeting, more groups were organised.

In fact the LAWS event this week sold out in a couple of days.

2rebecca · 26/11/2018 23:21

I'm just back from holiday so watched this tonight. None of the trans people seemed really happy with who they were. The problem with puberty blockers is that it's puberty that turns you in to a sexual being and makes you think about sexual partners.
It's a bit late to only be considering "hang on who is going to be my sexual partner" when you have had your breasts removed and testosterone for a few years. Gay men want a penis, hereto men want a female who wants to be a woman, straight women want a male with a penis and usually kids with the bloke and lesbians usually want a female who is happy being female.
Once the transient you tube stardom wears off you are stuck in a sexual no mans land. Many seem to have relationships with each other.
It was very antipuberty blockers which is great.

CathyDyson · 27/11/2018 01:18

I'm going to have to say something that I've been thinking about since first watching the programme and I'm going to apologise in advance in case it offends anyone as it affects someone who a lot of people see as an ally. I commented at the time about Debbie Hayton's wife, the absolutely haunted look on her face. At the time it made me sad, but the more I've thought about it the more angry it's made me. This woman has had her life torn apart and the mental anguish that she has been put through by this person is so unforgivable. And this person who has done this is given a platform by groups fighting for our rights simply because we agree with some of the things they have to say. I've read the stories in the trans widows thread and they are so heartbreaking. Can you imagine if one of those husbands turned up here saying "but I want to help" ? Imagine the reception he'd be given. We wouldn't give him the time of day and yet we are giving a platform and saying well done that was a good speech or article to someone who has caused just the same damage to a woman. I could tell by some of the posts that people were possibly holding back, perhaps feeling awkward because of who Debbie is. I'm never going to be a great poster because I don't see the point of repeating what others have said and someone has usually made whatever comment I would have made by the time I get round to reading a thread. However on this I just have to say something. It's been playing on my mind too much. It just seems wrong that we talk about the damage being done to families and yet here is an example of someone who has caused such damage but we invite them on stage to defend women. It seems a bit messed up. Sorry for the ramble. I just had to say this.

KayM2 · 27/11/2018 06:40

Rowantrees; you say I underestimate women, for some reason. I certainly don't.

We all know that the meetings have gone on happening, we have all seen the footage, and I know people who have attended them.

If I am well enough I intend to be at the next one. I'm looking at the have a ticket as I write.

KayM2 · 27/11/2018 07:02

MUST edit better.... sigh. I have a ticket, not" at the have" a ticket for the Laws meeting.

R0wantrees · 27/11/2018 07:27

And this person who has done this is given a platform by groups fighting for our rights simply because we agree with some of the things they have to say. I've read the stories in the trans widows thread and they are so heartbreaking. Can you imagine if one of those husbands turned up here saying "but I want to help" ? Imagine the reception he'd be given. We wouldn't give him the time of day and yet we are giving a platform and saying well done that was a good speech or article to someone who has caused just the same damage to a woman. I could tell by some of the posts that people were possibly holding back, perhaps feeling awkward because of who Debbie is.

CathyDyson I have been thinking about this a lot recently.

RepealTheGRA · 27/11/2018 07:39

Excellent post CathyDyson.

I am definitely team MRS Hayton.

KayM2 · 27/11/2018 07:41

Yes; the spouse, if there is one, and the marriage would have otherwise been an enduring one ,is very often in a terrible position. Emotionally, financially... awful.

TinselAngel · 27/11/2018 07:41

Thanks Cathy for making that point. I've said similar on the Trans Widows thread. This really shook me and made me think that maybe "gender critical" transsexuals with female partners, are appropriating women's spaces in a more insidious way that the TRA's that they criticise. Because it cuts off the partners potential source of support.

What happened with my ex was bad enough but at least he's not a celebrated "feminist".

RepealTheGRA · 27/11/2018 07:47

This really shook me and made me think that maybe "gender critical" transsexuals with female partners, are appropriating women's spaces in a more insidious way that the TRA's that they criticise

Totally agree and I’ve thought that from the beginning. I was just waiting for someone more eloquent to express that. Thank you Cathy and Tinsel.

TinselAngel · 27/11/2018 08:00

It's maybe worth a new thread if anybody is brave enough to start one!

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 27/11/2018 08:00

Great post, Cathy. You're absolutely right.

LikeDust · 27/11/2018 08:00

I've been thinking about this too.

I was actually quite shocked and upset when Debbie said on the programme about not having really thought about the impact upon Debbie's own family.

The effect was palpable. Debbie's wife needing to take it a few hours at a time. That isn't living. That is a living death. How come Debbie isn't the one living just a few hours at a time, since Debbie is the one with the Dysphoria. Why should that suffering be transferred onto others?

It made a powerful argument for retaining the spousal veto for a GRC. Even the 'allies' like Debbie are utterly self-centred, self-absorbed and selfish about this. The law needs to protect spouses.

RepealTheGRA · 27/11/2018 08:05

What is Mrs Hayton’s name? Did it say on the documentary? Did I miss it? Blush

This is the feminist board, we need to be centering her and her children.

If you’re lurking FlowersWineBrewCakeGin drop in (even if under cover) lots of people here will support you.

TinselAngel · 27/11/2018 08:08

The look on her face when Stella said "We'll done" for staying rather than leaving, spoke volumes.

R0wantrees · 27/11/2018 08:12

This is the feminist board, we need to be centering her and her children

Absolutely and other women in similar situations.

deepwatersolo · 27/11/2018 08:20

Difficult topic. I like Debbie. But, clearly, it is important to listen and show solidarity to the wife, in a way that truly supports her. But do we even know what the wife would consider helpful support? She did make the conscious decision to stay, after all. Yeah, I don't know.

TinselAngel · 27/11/2018 08:23

I'm aware I could be projecting but it's not usually as simple as making a conscious decision to stay. You desperately want to keep your life and your family together so you make a series of accommodations and compromises, each of which is gradually pushed and then broken by the Trans partner.

KayM2 · 27/11/2018 08:23

Every human being , all of us , have our own stories. All the same, yet also each unique. In order to make some sense of life, we tend to make assumptions about others. Just as we do in the case of marriages that end ( or stagger on making the best of it) when one person, usually the man but very occasionally the woman,transitions between gender roles.

I've seen the classic " it was just a bit of cross dressing but it got worse" scenario a few times. I have met a couple of (former) wives who have been , and seemed to still be, devastated. I've also seen one or two cases where both the partners had serious problems, pre marriage, just different ones.

I am fortunate to be still friends with both the vibrant, talented, funny, socially outrageous , hard drinking women I was once married to.
One for a very brief time, one for 20 years. In the end I divorced them both,when I could no longer tolerate the behaviours that shocked my family, and wore me down. In our old age we have continued to be friends; to the point of annual holidays and regular visits.

The cliched view of " poor wife, did not bargain for this" is a cliché because it is often completely true. But in life the obvious picture
is not always the full picture. Each case is unique. Each person does the best they can, with the cards they were dealt.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/11/2018 08:26

debbie is just another male who prioritised their own happiness. And Debbie is human and god knows wanting to be happy isn't and shouldn't be a crime. I've got sympathy with the decision Debbie made.

But here of all places we mustn't buy into the 'brave and stunning' narrative. Debbie's choices had serious effects on Debbie's wife and children and it's OK to talk about that.

TinselAngel · 27/11/2018 08:31

Yes Kay,I'm civilised with my ex too but it doesn't mean he didn't put me through hell.

And I'm thankful he's not on this board, mansplaining women's experiences back to them.

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