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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

609 replies

drum123 · 21/11/2018 20:06

Apologies if there is already a thread about this. Channel 4, 10.00 tonight. 'Stella O'Malley considers the huge rise in numbers of young people embarking on gender transition, through the prism of the gender identity issues she experienced when she was a child.' According to The Times no TRA groups were prepared to contribute to this . Stella feels this may be because she was a tomboy as a young girl, (even insisting she was a boy until she hit puberty), and is now a confident, mature woman who believes that nowadays she would be pressured to go down the transition route. Sounds like it will be worth watching.

OP posts:
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KayM2 · 24/11/2018 22:42

Of course it isn't about me. But if someone makes an attack on me , as I mentioned happened again at @ 8.30 tonight, in which my word , motivation, and honesty is questioned, and in which allegations are made about my behaviour elsewhere that could be harmful to me at ( eg) the WPUK meeting in early December, what am I supposed to do?

As for divulging personal details; as you know, it is common for some people on Mumsnet to assume that people like me are playing double games, and are in real life just middle aged men with a computer and a collection of porn. That was an attempt at humour, by the way. I can't help thinking that that suspicion is what is happening here. I am totally "out", and everyone around me knows my history. I do hope that at least one or tow of the regular posters do meet up with me sometime soon. I hope and believe that suspicions will fade.

R0wantrees · 24/11/2018 22:47
Hmm
drum123 · 25/11/2018 08:39

It looks like my thread has been a bit derailed, as often happens in any discussion. Perhaps it's time for another thread to be started, to discuss the issues that have arisen. The issues the TV programme raises will continue to be discussed, I'm sure.

OP posts:
CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 25/11/2018 08:41

I think I may have started the derailing, sorry. I didn't realise I was stepping into a subject with history when I said about contacting MP's.

R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 09:04

drum123 Andrew Gilligan in The Sunday Times picks up and expands on many of the issues in the program.

Where Stella O'Malley says at the end that these are 'children who are lost.... and being led', Gilligan's article identifies the roles played by some TRA organisations & charities:

'Trans groups under fire for huge rise in child referrals
Activists and vloggers are in the spotlight as one school says 40 pupils ‘do not identify as their birth gender’
(extract)
"To trans activist groups that focus on young people, such as Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence, this is a flowering of public awareness and acceptance that has lifted people’s fear of revealing their innate gender identities.

Others say this cannot be the whole reason. “If that’s the case, where are the adults, the middle-aged people seeking transition?” said Jane Galloway, a parent and women’s rights campaigner. Over the same five-year period there has been a rise in the number of adults referred for gender treatment of 240% — big, but lower than for children.

Part of the explanation, say some professionals, is the activist groups themselves. Helped by funding from the public sector, the national lottery and the BBC’s Children in Need, they have undergone their own transition, from marginalised outsiders to darlings of the Establishment, fixtures of official panels and glossy diversity awards ceremonies.

“They are not just supporting transition, they are promoting it,” said Moore. “They have created a market for it.”

In Brighton, an LGBT charity called Allsorts Youth Project has launched the UK’s first group for “trans or gender-questioning” children aged 5 to 11. As of March, according to Allsorts documents, it had 27 local members with an average age of nine. “Trans adults facilitate the space in order to give children positive role models,” the documents say. The charity’s Facebook profile picture states: “Allsorts means family.” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 25/11/2018 09:18

Part of the explanation, say some professionals, is the activist groups themselves. Helped by funding from the public sector, the national lottery and the BBC’s Children in Need, they have undergone their own transition, from marginalised outsiders to darlings of the Establishment, fixtures of official panels and glossy diversity awards ceremonies.

This really does remind me of Kids Company.

R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 09:32

Amongst he most prominant of 'glossy diversity awards ceremonies' is Pink News.
This was attended by key politicians as well as celebrities.

It is also important to consider the sponsors of the awards.

www.pinknews.co.uk/topic/pinknews-awards/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3390910-Can-we-talk-about-Pink-News-Collecting-examples-of-their-propaganda

R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 09:40

further developments re GenderGP and Drs Helen & Mike Webberley:

Sunday Times:
"A private gender clinic that gave sex-change hormones to a 12-year-old has been left in limbo after both its doctors were placed under investigation by the General Medical Council (GMC).

Helen Webberley, founder of Gender GP in Wales, was convicted in court last month of operating gender treatment services without a licence. She was already subject to a GMC investigation and is banned from treating transgender patients unsupervised.

She announced that her husband Mike, also a GP, would take over the service to give trans clients “the highest standards of care”. Last week, however, the GMC began to investigate Mike Webberley. It has banned him from prescribing sex-change hormones over the internet, one of Gender GP’s main lines of business, and said any such patients must see him in person at his Abergavenny home.

In a statement, Mike Webberley said the investigation was “perhaps inevitable” given the “negative attention” his wife had received. He blamed “spurious complaints made against me by individuals, many of whom are less qualified than myself”.

Most of Gender GP’s patients are adults but it has earned notoriety for its willingness to treat children with hormones that can cause irreversible changes and compromise fertility. NHS guidelines do not allow such treatment for under-16s." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gp-couple-face-questions-after-giving-sex-change-hormones-to-12-year-old-0vmlz8cmf?shareToken=0a9fa71c1749807116e2eec2e67a0f69

R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 09:51

Sunday Times today, parent's story:

"My daughter transitioned when she was just over 16. It was between six months and a year before the school told us. They made her a little name badge and started using the new [male] pronouns, and were full-on affirming. We only found out at a parents’ evening. We’d gone in to see how she was doing in her A-levels and they dropped that on us.

Before it all started, she’d come out to us, saying she thought she was lesbian. We went, “Yeah, we wondered whether you’d tell us”. She started wearing masculine clothing and I thought that was her finding her identity as a lesbian. Then she had her hair cut, which suited her. I didn’t realise the symbolic meaning of it.

Looking back, she started spending a lot of time on the internet. As a parent, you think fair enough, they’re finding themselves; I’m not going to track her. I thought the web community would support her as a young lesbian. But once you get into that social setup it becomes very difficult to recant, because you will lose all your friends. Saying, “I was wrong, I’m not really trans”, blows the thing out of the water." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-school-was-already-calling-her-him-ld3pskjjn?shareToken=4ca06f484d0119579d32631445d5c319

Italiangreyhound · 25/11/2018 11:10

As the brain is still developing up to about age 25 and children are still legally children under 18- how can an 11 year old know anything for sure!

Certainly not enough to warrant effectively stopping some of their brain and body development at age 11.

R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 11:22

current thread with comment from one of the 'protesters' at the 'We Need To Talk About Sex' event at the Jam Jar in Bristol.

They were interviewed for this documentary:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3433667-I-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-I-regret-what-I-did-this-is-why

Waterparc · 25/11/2018 11:24

Any chance of a share token for this:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr
Thank you

hellandhairnets · 25/11/2018 11:27

This really does remind me of Kids Company.

Me too. But this is much, much worse and much, much bigger.

Waterparc · 25/11/2018 12:03

Ah, I found this
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3433581-Sunday-Times-Articles-Today

Waterparc · 25/11/2018 12:04

The protester, Esther, is starting to grow up? Good to read the apology at least.

ToeToToe · 25/11/2018 12:17

For the record, I thought the programme was thoughtful and intelligent. Very good work, Stella, thank you.

One of the transactivists blocking the stairwell at Venice's meeting has, it seems, reflected on their actions:

medium.com/@Betsulimo/i-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-i-regret-what-i-did-this-is-why-7e12350ab6d3

It's an interesting piece - positive, I think. Although Esther doubles down on TWAW, Esther also, I'm pleased to see, is horrified to see how much they scared women like Heather on that stairwell. Horrified to see how they came across on national television, chanting and bullying women, forcing entry to the building - where apparently they wanted to set off a smoke bomb in the meeting. I'm very pleased they didn't manage to do this.

I'm glad Esther has the honesty to reflect on this, and realise just how awful their behaviour was - and I wonder if the other one there who shouted "my pronouns are they, you fucking cunt" at posie has similar misgivings having seen how their behaviour looks on tv.

I'd wager there is not a feminist on Mumsnet who thinks, for example, that Esther deserved to lose housing due to being trans. I certainly don't.

I also don't think anyone would deny Esther's right to be a transwoman, and to present themselves any way they like.

The sticking point is, as always, the TWAW thing. Transwomen are transwomen - and women have the right to categorise themselves in their own category - biological women. The ones born with a female reproductive system, and socialised as a female. We have the right to talk about our own bodies using our own language, and we have the right to our own private spaces.

ToeToToe · 25/11/2018 12:18

I've cross posted with you rowan, I walked away for a bit and didn't refresh the page!

Italiangreyhound · 25/11/2018 16:59

ToeToToe

"One of the transactivists blocking the stairwell at Venice's meeting has, it seems, reflected on their actions..."

Thanks for posting that. That truly is quite heart warming. The desire to hinrsrly engage is so important.

Respecting people, even when you do not agree with them, is probably the main way forward for all movenent between opposing groups of people.

Italiangreyhound · 25/11/2018 17:01

Honestly engage...

KayM2 · 25/11/2018 17:15

I read that; pretty encouraging, I'd say.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/11/2018 17:18

I'd have a look at the relevant thread italian

Its not a completely positive thread

OrchidInTheSun · 25/11/2018 17:52

I suspect that if Esther wants paid employment, distancing themselves from the thuggish behaviour they displayed on national tv is probably quite important.

KayM2 · 25/11/2018 19:29

Perhaps I am a bit trusting but E did not have to out herself as a Masked Raider, did she?

I remember taking part in a student demo in Brighton ( Vietnam etc) and although at the time I possessed no shoes, and was a hippie, I was shocked to see two older people step back with fear in their faces as we rampaged past, intent on stopping the war and making idiots of ourselves.

I remember seeing the fear; it had not occurred to me that we could be frightening. Perhaps E really did have a Damascus moment when she saw the film?

Fizzingwithdisbelief · 25/11/2018 19:52

I'd wager there is not a feminist on Mumsnet who thinks, for example, that Esther deserved to lose housing due to being trans. I certainly don't.

I don't believe for one moment that this person was evicted for "being trans" more likely evicted for being a total pillock

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/11/2018 20:01

I remember seeing the fear; it had not occurred to me that we could be frightening. Perhaps E really did have a Damascus moment when she saw the film?

Im going no on that one

Is wearing a mask frightening for other people....check

Is yelling frightening for other people....check

Is stopping people from going where they want to go frightening for those people....check

I could go on but i cant be bothered

As much as i would like to believe that E is regretting her actions now i think that she knew what she was doing at the time