How do SA and rape survivors cope in this climate?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

When I gave birth last Feb, the staff wanted a load of people observing me inc men. I always knew I wouldn't cope well with that but when it came to it, he strength of my feeling surprised me. I couldn't go through it.

I was told last week that that same hospital now employs a transwoman ultrasonographer in the EPU who specialises in vaginal US. The person who told me was a local GP, speaking to me in a social context. He said some of his patients had been distressed by it.

It got me thinking - how do you/ would you cope as a survivor faced with that kind of thing? For me, loos aren't so much an issue but healthcare definitely is. But we all have our specific triggers.... what do we do if we cannot avoid them?

I don't cope. Every new piece of information about sexual abuse being bought to light sets a bomb off in my stomach.

Actually I think it's more

Some women I don't want a female HCP

Other women no that's not right. Many of use prefer women HCP so that should be the default.

Some women how about we can all choose what we prefer

Other women. No that's not right. Some of us aren't able to speak up so our right to not want a male HCP trumps your right to not want a female HCP.

Female people absolutely should be able to say no. And there should be no assumptions made as to what sex HCP a female patient would prefer.

I would refuse to have a male chaperone in the room as well as having a male HCP for intimate procedures

I’m not minimising her experience, im stating that the article you linked too is not really relevant to the issue being discussed as her request for a female HCP was not recorded correctly, as opposed to them
Deliberately Sending a transwoman after a female-only request.

Do you think every doctor's surgery, when faced with a bolshy and self centred MTF, would be so confident of the law that they would say no?

This person, on the patient saying that she had asked for a female person to do the smear, denied they were male.

And the woman on complaining felt she was treated like a bigot.

As a rape survivor and a survivor of coercive control DV, it's not actually about whether a male is "gentle" and a female is brusque.

It's the every no from a woman is the beginning of a negotiation assumption that grates, isn't it? Woman requests a female HCP. OK yes but, what if the male person has long hair? No? OK, what if they really feel like they're a woman? Still no? OK, but...and on and bloody on. It never ends.

Yes. Negotiation is manipulation. No is a complete sentence.

It was odd. I suppose they must have a policy of 2 people for any intimate procedures but it wasn't explained and I wasn't asked if it was ok.

Mind you I wasn't asked if it was ok to do a TVU either. I was just told that she was doing it because she couldn't see enough abdominally.

So I would have had to actively speak out if either situation wasn't ok.

Female people absolutely should be able to say no. And there should be no assumptions made as to what sex HCP a female patient would prefer.

The well established best practice for intimate examinations of female patients is that if the HCP is male there is a female chaperone.

If a female requests / requires female HCPs only there is protocol for this.

What is at stake is that these long established best practices are based on biological sex (not affected by legal GRC etc).
Not gender or gender identity.

Why would you have a female hcp and a male chaperone though?

Do you even need a chaperone with a female hcp?

And surely even a female hcp should seek consent before an intimate procedure (or any procedure)?

Other women no that's not right. Many of use prefer women HCP so that should be the default.

Yes, it should. YOU speak up if you don't want a woman. Socially we have an assumption of single sex situations when vulnerable. That is a reasonable common sense assumption and the majority of people of both sexes who have a preference are not doing it because of PTSD, they just want privacy and dignity away from the opposite sex. Stop trying to water that down. It's important to most women in various ways.

Yes, it should. YOU speak up if you don't want a woman.
Actually it wasn't me. It was posters earlier in the thread that had been abused and said that they wanted to be treated by male hcp.

And that's fair enough. But I don't think it should be treated the same as wanting a woman.

But I don't think it should be treated the same as wanting a woman.

In what way?

As in as I've already said having a female HCP should be the default for women.

So what happens if a woman feels unable to say no to a female hcp or to request a male instead? For all the same reasons as a woman feels unable to say no to a male?

Are they just collateral damage? They have to put up with it because more women would rather have a female?

It doesn't affect me because I am not fussed either way as long as they are qualified but weirdly fro my example above I actually felt more awkward about not challenging the female hcp than I would have done had it been a man.

It's almost like we are expected to not want a male hcp so people are more concerned about getting consent and yet it's just presumed that a female will be ok so you aren't even asked.

I would also feel odd requesting a male dr. I much prefer them to ask me at booking to tick a box rather than me having to specifically speak up.

They can tick a box when the default is female.

What I'm saying is that if the default is female then provision should be in place for those patients who can't see a female practitioner and don't feel that they can verbalise this. Why can't they ask that question when they book the appointment?

If you can understand why a patient feels unable to speak up and say they don't want to see a male hcp I don't see why you can't understand the opposite?

I've made a conscious decision to not have any more smear tests and I won't be having any mammograms either when the time comes.

I have been sexually assaulted by two doctors in the past as well as the childhood abuse and can't face removing my clothing. It was very difficult when I was younger, but pretty much impossible now so I've given up trying.

If I get sick I'll deal with it. I can't allow myself to become old anyway as I can't have others looking after me.

@weetabix I don't think there's any point in arguing, they just can't get it.

It's like whenever I say I was abused by women, I get 'but most of the time!' thrown back in my face every time. Same as when I say the abuse from my aunt was way more traumatising than the abuse from my uncle because the way she did it was so much more violating. It's like bouncing off a brick wall. 'how can it be more violating, she doesn't have a penis!'

These rules to determine the perfect victim yet again, the perfect rape that everyone can point a finger at the penis-based problem and the nice, tidy solution. There's no point in it.

I'm not fully caught up on this thread but between the last comment i made and now, i've been unexpectedly admitted to the pathology ward of my local hospital for observation and neurology in the morning (a&e doc was being cautious i think) and there are six of us women in here and i'm the only one who can walk. I can't stop thinking how vulnerable these women are. My husband came by to give me some tampons and my phone and as grateful as i was, i asked him to leave straightaway. All the nurses are women and i know we're safe (i live on a greek island btw, the craziness has not reached our shores) but this is what's on my mind at 4am in hospital. This might not even be the right thread i'm posting on (first time on MN on my phone lol) but my point is, if i have a point, these women are fragile and vulnerable as it gets and the thought of one of them having to fight for female hcps is giving me rage. Also i was glad that the tech who did my chest x ray was a woman, that's always nice.

I don't go. Sorry nrtft, only first and last pages.

I had to have a whole female team, and in the end very heavy sedation. I awoke to see a man watching me from the supplies cupboard, i silently cried just staring at him, willing him to just fuck off, fuck off, fuck off!!!

I don't suppose he thought it mattered though, not really.

I was too drugged to really move and felt so vulnerable and frozen.

I am now even more horrified at the possibilities! I am lucky with my GP, but will have to move, and it risks me just not going....again

I am very sad for those who have this situation with women hcp. Tbh its always been difficult for me trying to avoid the men, much harder to get women. So I hope that plays to your benefit.

I am glad to read that so many feel like this tbh...it's making me feel less of an issue.

I did also wonder if I had been shouting or screaming in my sleep...

I don't, I go to pieces. I need an endoscopic ultrasound to examine my biliary tree. It's been ordered since March. Endoscopy cannot comprehend why it needs administering by a woman and why I need to have more than normal sedation. So they have been fobbing me off for 8 months. It's as though they don't care.

If there is male members of a team, in an NHS that takes 2 weeks for an emergancy gynachology appointment, I don’t think it makes sense to default all woman to female practitioners. If it’s default do you suggest all these men just lose their jobs?
It’s not feasible and I think a lot of woman have no problem with men in a medical setting. If you request a female, you should be given one, and you should be informed if the female is a transwoman prior to your appointment so that you can make an informed decision.

With regards to men being at the hospital at some point if you are going through different procedures, it’s not really avoidable. I understand it may be traumatic for you for whatever reason, but 49% of the population is Male you can’t avoid them at all times unfortunately.

If you request a female, you should be given one, and you should be informed if the female is a transwoman prior to your appointment so that you can make an informed decision.

No, if you request a female you should not be offered a male person.

From this thread I’m getting

• women who have been raped or sexually assualted and now don’t want strange men performing intimate examinations are irrational, not thinking about men’s jobs, boring and basic with their experiences of sexual violence, need to get over it because men are half the population and you can’t avoid them all
• women who have been sexually assaulted by women have a more important experience and this is something other women should apologise for if they don’t centre it in their response regarding their experiences
• saying you’ve been raped or sexually assaulted by a hcp is ignored as a minor detail when someone’s up on their high horse because it doesn’t fit their point they’re pushing

Now the important bit

• lots of women have been sexually assaulted and raped by hcp - including myself. I’m shocked by this and I’m not surprised so many of us have problems because of this. I wonder if this is something the nhs takes into consideration or is it just we have been raped by someone? I mean, it’s our role as the person that’s been raped that’s taken into account as opposed to it being done by a hcp and that’s making the situation worse. Is that taken into consideration? I imagine not as nahcpalt.

for all who have talked about their experiences