Genuine question - not goady, I promise, I am GC myself..How do we safeguard boys (generally age 8+) in changing rooms and toilets?

[Icantmakeanomelette]

I have daughters and so I have no experience of safeguarding male children.

I agree that children need safety from predators, disagree with GG stance on safeguarding (my children are no longer in guiding).

So how are little boys protected from male predators in changing rooms and toilets?

Thank for sharing that, Overprotective- thank goodness your son has a lovely family around him- sounds as though you've reacted brilliantly.
And absolutely this is a reasonable subject to discuss in the feminist boards, not least because we're very well primed to discuss issues around toilet/changing-room safety.
We've been discussing it with regard to females for yonks so it's not a massive leap to consider its impact on boys.
If you pop it on another board, you're kinda starting again.

Overprotective007. It's dreadful that your son was attacked, and a hope he continues with his recovery.

The problem with using female facilities as your son gets older is that you are going to distress many women and girls. Can't you use the male facilities and explain to them, if challenged, why you are there?

At our swimming pool, its a women's communal room with one curtained off area to fit one person. He uses that to change and then he goes to the lobby to wait for me so he's not hanging around in there.

Yes, I know it will become an issue down the line and I've avoided thinking too much about it. Luckily he is short for his age so hope its still quite far in the future.

I feel for you and your son, because as you say, he's not going to be ready to use any facilities (male, female or mix) on his own for sometime.

over
My next bit is not in response to your post.
So it appears the general feeling on this thread is predatory men are the issue and non-predatory men can't be relied on to keep male children safe.
I don't think allowing boys into the ladies indefinitely is the answer because there is no clearly defined age where a boy starts becoming a higher risk.
Maybe all male toilets should have a security guard.
Or no men are allowed in without Chaperone.
Or men have a curfew and can only use public toilets after 8pm when all the boys are in bed.

non-predatory men can't be relied on to keep male children safe.

In terms of toilet design, I don’t think they can be relied on to keep male children safe. If there is another man in a toilet where a predatory man attacks or assaults a boy I certainly think they will be likely to help keep boys safe.

Very few (no?) people have said that boys should be allowed into the ladies (with clear exceptions - SN, children who have been abused) unquestioned past a certain age.

I am not sure why you raise absurd curfew suggestions when useful suggestions and development of thought have already occurred and been discussed.

Oh I am so sorry Overprotective. There was I saying that that sort of thing didn't happen.

The demand that men do their part by doing stuff with kids where they need loos feels deeply ironic to me.

Me and my husband pretty much have reversed roles. We had 50:50 split maternity leave, he brings/fetches kid from school (previous kindergarten). 75% of the time, he loves to cook, does laundry, keeps things in order (he needs more order than me), I love sports.

Saturdays I go to the pool with DS while DH does the groceries. Now feminist board tells me, we need to switch roles and do groceries so DH can so the cool sports stuff.

No problem @Coyoacan. I would have thought the same as you before and thought it existed only in urban legend, not unlike all of the attempted abductions that get shared around on Facebook.

It probably isn't that common as crimes go. But I've obviously thought about my own parenting what others do, and was I neglectful? Thinking about it, I allowed him into a small unsupervised room where he was in a vulnerable position and other males were free to wander into him. It does sound neglectful, given his age.

I'm not sure how the police record these sort of crimes, but it would be interesting to extrapolate the statistics.

I have boys and took them with me into the ladies as long as I could, until about 9/10. After that I'd make them go with Dad/brother or hang around veey visibly outside if I was on my own with one of them. Largely, this has sufficed I think. Changing rooms we've always just gone into a cubicle all together with no issues. All the aho6ps they are interested in seem to just have one large changing room so that works really well.

Many restaurants and bars seem to have unisex toilets now or at least kind of unisex ie where you have a corridor of individual cubicle toilets with man/woman on the ouside and you just go in whichever one is free. Most Wagamamas have these i think? I actually find these a bit more worrying as you have adults of all sexes and small children all pushing past each other and it would seem easy to push a kid into a cubicle in front of you and lock the door behind you (eg recent case in SA where a man raped a young girl). At least you can go right up to the door on the unisex cubicle ones I suppose and bang on the door and check theyre allright.

I dont know what the answer is. ldeally everywhere should have male, female, unisex, and family toilets and chnaging rooms I suppose but that seems pretty unlikely. At least the unisex ones don't have the hideous urinals i suppose.

Maybe all male toilets should have a security guard.
Or no men are allowed in without Chaperone.
Or men have a curfew and can only use public toilets after 8pm when all the boys are in bed.

...and some say feminists have no sense of humour....all boys in bed by 8pm. Ha Ha.

The problem with using female facilities as your son gets older is that you are going to distress many women and girls. Can't you use the male facilities and explain to them, if challenged, why you are there?

Or send a male to accompany him.

Personally I have decided I‘ll enter male spaces. It makes no sense having DH do sports stuff he does not like with DS, and leave me with the housewifey shit I do not like, even though that may be all the rage in Saudi Arabia.

Personally I have decided I‘ll enter male spaces. It makes no sense having DH do sports stuff he does not like with DS, and leave me with the housewifey shit I do not like, even though that may be all the rage in Saudi Arabia

Personally I like neither, but it is a better solution than taking him to the women's changerooms for the sake of girls and women.

I think it was an excellent point made upthread about designing male toilets to allow mothers access to help their sons.

Are you equally happy for female toilets to be redesigned so that fathers can access to help daughters?

Are you equally happy for female toilets to be redesigned so that fathers can access to help daughters?

Why would women's toilets need redesigning? There are no urinals in women's toilets.

As the mother of sons who do use the male changing room I'd challenge any woman who decided to "use male spaces". Boys are entitled to privacy too. Whatever the solution looks like this is not it.

Weetabix the men don't need to accompany their daughters into th ladies. It's male violence and male predators that are the problem

I am specifically talking entering toilets to unambigously see the cubicle door of my son‘s. I have never encountered a situation where it wasn‘t possible for me and son to change together in some place or corner that is not sex segregated.
And frankly, since that boy was raped at the pool toilet (other city but our region) I don‘t care.
(Obviously, if there is an option like a bush in the park, that‘s preferable.)

Weetabix the men don't need to accompany their daughters into th ladies.

I disagree. I think 8 is quite young for either sex to go into a public toilet on their own. Even little things like being able to lick/unlock the door can be difficult for a young child.

Most posters are saying that for privacy/dignity reasons boys over 8 (or 6 in one ridiculous post) shouldn't go into the ladies so it stands to reason that girls over 8 shouldn't go into the mens for the same reason.

Posters saying they will take their sons into the gents - I assume then that men can accompany their daughters into the ladies?

As the mother of sons who do use the male changing room I'd challenge any woman who decided to "use male spaces". Boys are entitled to privacy too. Whatever the solution looks like this is not it.

Exactly.

Yeah, just tell me when you‘ve found the solution, until then I‘ll do what I have to.

I was never the sort of parent to see a predator around every corner so my concerns were always around the more practical issues - I have a son and a daughter so I worried that if I took my daughter to the toilet with me and let my son use the gents alone then what if he wandered off before I was finished in the ladies (vice versa if their dad took them out on his own). It's all of the practical considerations that make life difficult for all parents of young children.

I don't think the answer is for adults to go into the opposite sex toilets in order to accompany a young child. It makes far more sense all round for the child to go with the parent.

Overprotective I am sorry too, read it just now. It is good to hear that your son coped well. I hadn‘t even contemplated that some might actually be on the lookout for some kid to enter the toilet alone. Sickening.

I was never the sort of parent to see a predator around every corner so my concerns were always around the more practical issues - I have a son and a daughter so I worried that if I took my daughter to the toilet with me and let my son use the gents alone then what if he wandered off before I was finished in the ladies (vice versa if their dad took them out on his own)

Teach them not to wander off.