Genuine question - not goady, I promise, I am GC myself..How do we safeguard boys (generally age 8+) in changing rooms and toilets?

[Icantmakeanomelette]

I have daughters and so I have no experience of safeguarding male children.

I agree that children need safety from predators, disagree with GG stance on safeguarding (my children are no longer in guiding).

So how are little boys protected from male predators in changing rooms and toilets?

Spartacus, honestly you are sounding a bit bonkers

Oh, such a common response - when a woman complains of discomfort on her behalf or that of girls just claim she is 'bonkers'.

It is part of safeguarding to accept that children, young and old, pose a risk. That’s true in both male and female facilities.

If I have to take DD 6 and DS 10 to separate toilets then I will obv take DD in with me and I have sent DS in to the men’s on his own IF and only if it looks busy and being used by lots of people (men) at the same time.
The few times it has been very quiet, like recently in a bus station, I have hovvered in the doorway in full view while he uses a cubicle. On balance the one or two other male users who may have felt discomfort with my presence has been unfortunate for them, but my DC’s safety is more important to me than their embarrassment or annoyance with my presence.

Eight is usually the cut off point. Usually boys are ready to use the toilet and change without their mothers present well before this age, but 8 is good because it helps boys who aren't ready at 6 or 7.

It would have been inappropriate for my son to be in the ladies toilets and changing room at 9 or above. Boys certainly wouldnt be expected to change with girls at school at this age.

Women are disproportionately goingto be the ones out with children of both sexes, and while they can safeguard their daughters by being present with them in the toilets up to teen years or however long they want, they can’t do so with their sons past the age of around 7 without difficulty.

I raised my son not to be inappropriate when in the ladies toilets and I teach him the pants rule etc, but I know from my experiences as a girl and woman how easy it is to freeze or be incapacitated when inappropriately approached. Even in my 20s, let alone aged 8. This makes me wary about him being alone in the men’s toilets.

I think interesting points have been raised about the design of men’s toilets making it difficult for women to keep an eye on their sons. I don’t think the solution is to say boys should all be allowed to troop into the women’s toilets up to whatever age. However, neither is it to suggest that boys just have to learn to be wary like girls, and that a mother wanting to protect him means she wants to put him ahead of women and girls.

Agree Scipio

There isn’t a conflict here. If people want facilities that mothers can go into with their 9/11/14 year old sons, those facilities can be created, and that can be done without removing single sex facilities.

But that doesn’t help unchaperoned boys. There would still need to be improvements in how male toilets are designed and used, if men are able to think up better solutions.

And chaperoning boys into the toilets is teaching them to be wary, if the only reason for a chaperone is to prevent them from attack.

And chaperoning boys into the toilets is teaching them to be wary, if the only reason for a chaperone is to prevent them from attack.

I agree - and I think it is important to learn to be wary, sadly, for both girls and boys. I also think it can only do so much against an attack and therefore chaperoning is necessary.

The only people who can address and resolve male violence is men.

Women cannot control nor influence what men choose to do.

Men should be responsibie for their own behaviour. Not us.

My son, when he was younger, would go in and check that there were no other men in there before he went to the loo. He'd come out and give me a thumbs up that it was empty and then I'd keep an eye on it for other people going in. If there was a choice, I'd always send him in where I could see a dad going in with his child. Not failsafe but better than nothing!

Boys 10+ are not going to agree to their mums chaperoning them in toilets.

We do what we can as mothers to mitigate the risk but we cannot solve the problem of them being at risk.

As feminists we know increasing the risk disproportionally for women and girls for a slight decrease in risk for tween and young teen boys is not the right or an acceptable answer.

So we're left with calling out the need for men to take some responsibility for male violence, and insisting on boundaries.

Surely predators are only interested in women and girls though aren't they? Thats why we don't want them in our changing rooms. Boys are safe enough. But like OP I only have daughters so just guessing.

Um, certain predators very much do like little boys

Surely predators are only interested in women and girls though aren't they? Thats why we don't want them in our changing rooms.

Stop pretending to be naive. You’re as transparent as glass.

Stars Getting DS to check the loo is empty first and give me a thumbs up sounds like a good practical idea, thanks!

As far as wider solutions are concerned, I agree that asking women and girls to make room for tween boys is not appropriate.

Part of the reason I mentioned design of men's loos earlier is because FFS, why can't men see some change in their lives for a change?

Scotsheather suggest you read the thread, but to summarise yes boys are at risk, there are reasons the risk is lower but still a risk.

Mums of boys have various strategies they use, it's not perfect but the vast majority (possibly all genuine) mums of boys on this thread don't see mixed sex toilets as the right answer.

Key point Scotsheather is that its male predators and violence that is the problem and that men need to step up to help solve this

Sorry not trying to make light of the issue, but I would think boys are less at risk than girls particularly by about secondary age. Its why I would never object to younger boys coming into the ladies with mums. Teaching children to use their instincts (boys or girls for that matter) is a good start.

Mostly it is making sure that changing room visits are only with a trusted male adult. That can be rearranging the schedule or just skipping the changing room and getting changed at home. Not always possible obviously. We are lucky to have family changing rooms at our local facility.

For bathroom visits, I take the stand by the door approach. Keep it open so you can hear. A long delay would necessitate invading the space.

Sorry not trying to make light of the issue, but I would think boys are less at risk than girls particularly by about secondary age.

Possibly in general (I don’t know the stats for childhood grooming and abuse but I am assuming girls are at higher risk eg the grooming gangs), but in the toilets, given that men are the major perpetrators of abuse, unaccompanied boys are at risk.

If we are talking abput the risks of being attacked in public toilets then boys are not at less risk at secondary school age (or certainly not til they're through puberty) as girls are in the relative safety of the women's toilet and boys are in the men's.

For my sons I try and always send them in together or - if that's not possible - choose busy toilets in places like restaurants and hotels and shops rather than "public" toilets.

Mostly it is making sure that changing room visits are only with a trusted male adult
Well, yes, that sounds nice, but what of the thousands of single mothers out there with only help from older female relatives..?
Obviously there is no perfect solution, and we do what is appropriate, but it does upset me that pre pubescent boys are clearly seen by some as not in need of the same protection as girls.

There isn’t any way of giving the boys the same protection as the girls. It’s not a question of whether or not it should be accomplished, but of how. Nobody has put forward a solution other than chaperoning.

IfNotNowBernard:
"..it does upset me that pre pubescent boys are clearly seen by some as not in need of the same protection as girls."

That is a fucking lie and you know it! Read the fucking thread. Strangely enough, we seem to have lots of mothers on this thread, aware of the issues, and trying to discuss and work things out for the best, for our children. We are concerned for our male children as well as our female children.

And why? Because of male violence. It's still male violence that is the overwhelming problem.

IfnotnowBernard

So who on this thread are you accusing of thinking pre pubescent boys don't need the same protection as girls?

No one has said they don't deserve protection

We have said the solution is not bringing them into the ladies pasta certain age as that makes them unsafe for everyone.

For sone reason the life long caution etc that girls have to go by with where they go and what they do is some how not good enough for the boys even though it's only temporary and for many of you who have husbands partners or older children it's not even all the time in that temporary window.