Harassment of children in legal red light zone in Holbeck

[LaserShark]

I’ve just read an article posted in a feminist group I’m part of on FB. It’s a Daily Mail article, detailing the harassment of young children in Holbeck where the legal red light zone is. Men offering parents money to rape their children. Most shockingly, a grandmother pushing a buggy with a four month old baby was offered money for an hour alone with the baby.

I can’t get the article out of my head. I don’t live a million miles away (thankfully not close) and it makes the these depraved men seem so much more real. I can’t understand how anyone could defend this legal zone - there has been a murder, rapes, sexual assault and it sounds like a free for all for all kinds of terrible men with monstrous appetites. And neither the council nor the police seem willing to help or even acknowledge the festering horror they have created, or allowed to exist openly. Somehow they have empowered these sick, twisted fuckers to feel able to ask to rape children in broad daylight; so pornsick and warped that they imagine this to be reasonable or likely or simply get a thrill from the violation of frightening and upsetting women and children by voicing their hideous thoughts. What is happening and why is no one acting to stop it?

Did you bother to read my link with the story of a trafficked and raped young woman from Romania and comments from senior people in the Dutch government and justice system, Early?

Hey, Early, I know this is a big topic, but most of the women I've spoken to on here support the Nordic Model. Do you know what that is?

What I would also like to add is that this phenomenon of street harrassment and such is very clearly a result of how the police manages such zones.

My partner knows a police man who has policed in the legalized red light district of a major city, and I will say, the job is not for the faint hearted, with death threats, guns to your head, pitbull attacks... I saw that police man twice, and he sure looked like he had adapted (a pitbull and concealed carry), just like I'd imagine a superbrutal martial arts trained pimp. (Even though the guy at that point had moved to another area of police work. I think he still expected pay back.) The respective city clearly advocated a heavy handed approach, resulting in the police really going toe-to-toe with the pimps.The respective district was not particularly scary at night (not scarier than other places in the city with pubs and dance clubs). What you heard reported was stuff like one pimp shooting another, pimp violence against a prostitute (bad enough)...

The fact of the matter is that (even though I am a strong advocate of the Swedish model and find the legalization unacceptable) how safe such zones are for passersby very much depends on how strictly they are policed.

We all know how shit Woke Yorkshire Police are, from Sutcliffe through Savile to now.

Do none of you think that more crimes are reported when the victim is behaving legally?

You could have that with the Swedish model. Of course, prostitution often involves some other power over the prostitute (the pimps have her passport, can report her as an illegal immigrant, threaten to kill her kids back in the home country...), legality does nothing to solve that.

But I don’t think a bunch of middle class white people who have probably never even spoken to a prostitute are best placed to decide what’s best for them.

Actually, it's usually aggressive classism from middle class white people who (are pomo-addled and) support decrim. For the lessers, of course.

Imagine you’re from a place where no one does anything, you didn’t bother going to school and have no qualifications - perhaps you have children to feed. You could either work in a shop or similar (if you can get employed) earning £7.50 an hour, go on benefits and get £60 odd a week or work as a prostitute earning £££’s per day. My point being If someone chooses the latter option, there should be provisions in place to make it safe for her, criminalising something just puts it all in the hands of criminals.

QEfuckingD

Actually, it's usually aggressive classism from middle class white people who (are pomo-addled and) support decrim. For the lessers, of course.

This.

Yes I’d definitely support the Nordic Model, as long as it meant that prostitutes still had a safe place to work. I never said men shouldn’t be criminalised, you’ve all just read what you wanted to read.

Of course I’ve read about the young girl in Romania and many other stories of trafficked prostitutes, i feel terribly sorry for them. I don’t see how making it illegal for them to work or giving them a safe space to work from will make it any harder for them.
As I’ve said before, better policing and provisions will help these girls far more than criminalising it ever will.

I'm amazed at that speech ( in a good way!)

A quick Google and I think she's an independent. If so it makes sense.

I don’t get how assuming the teacher was a prostitute makes it ok to rape her? Even if she was a prostitute, she has the right to say no, I don’t want to, I’m not working tonight, etc. Just because you have a shop doesn’t mean you have to be open all the time and serve every customer.

The part about kids just makes me feel sick. These men must know that the children aren’t for sale and there’s no such thing as legal prostitution of a child, so why ask? A four month old baby FFS, what is the world coming to?

I'd guess most people here probably support the Nordic model. It was women like us who invented it, after all.

I don’t see how making it illegal for them to work or giving them a safe space to work from will make it any harder for them.

Well, if the police take their work seriously and smoke out the illegal dens by under cover work, thus automatically removing any woman who takes money for sex from the situation, no matter what, obviously, pimps will have a harder time keeping and turning over large numbers of girl.

That would not preclude not prosecuting the women.

It's the knowing that they're "allowed" to ask in that particular space that leads to the rest of it, Lewis. The local government have created a space in which if men sexually abuse women the police will turn a blind eye, and the predators congregating there have responded in an entirely predictable (and repulsive) way.

'Better policing and provisions'

I started to reply to that and then thought - I'm not sure why someone has arrived to tell off FWR (since the whole Echo Chamber/You Lot bit is front and centre) - yet again, how many times now this week has someone with superior intelligence and morals arrived to scold and correct the unwashed here? -

And they're arguing against Sarah Field's speech. The one person standing up and speaking out against the Holbeck red light zone, and what is happening there to women and children.

And at that point I lost interest in engaging.

Lewismam it doesn’t, it’s just predatory men being predatory men. Prostitutes can still be raped, anyone has the right to say no. It is rape plain and simple and the story about the teacher is nothing to do with prostitution, it’s just a shitty defence used by a criminal that was caught out to make him feel better about himself. The baby stories are horrendous and is illegal in every single way, no one has mistaken a baby for a prostitute, it’s uncomprehendable.

Even if she was a prostitute, she has the right to say no, I don’t want to, I’m not working tonight, etc.

I also cannot wrap my head around that. This makes no sense at any level.

"Person who came to tell the feminists how evil they are tells feminists that something like the Nordic Model created by feminists might be a good idea"

You can't make this stuff up.

My DH spent part of his childhood in a city where prostitution is rife (and so is trafficking), and remembers pretty much every young woman and teenage girl being treated as if they were a potential prostitute by creepy predatory men. That's one of the problems with normalizing the sex industry, once that's happened many men assume that any female human they see is available for a price. It fundamentally alters the social contract in ways that are far reaching and difficult to control.

I have friends in Germany who've reported similar changes since legalization there.

It's the knowing that they're "allowed" to ask in that particular space that leads to the rest of it, Lewis
As a pp said, nobody has innocently mistaken a baby for a prostitute. They must realise the children aren’t for sale. It’s monstrous and horrifying and the police should be cracking down on it.

Yet another example of so called feminists refusing to read what I’ve written, created a scenario in their heads so they can argue and then acts like I’m the one who’s changed my mind when you have no points to argue! You’re right, you really can’t make this stuff up.
Men being predatory is not prostitutes fault, it’s men and their behaviour. Rather than making it harder for a prostitute to make a living in a safe way, work on educating men that not all woman are there for their entertainment. It is not the prostitutes fault.

The guys who raped the teacher didn't use 'I thought she was a prositute' as an excuse. They used it as a reason, because the lax culture around prostitution in that specific area meant that any woman was available.

Indeed, we've been pointing out that women, including prostitutes, are not responsible for men's behavior since, oh, the 60s?

This whole attempted reversal thing is getting a bit tiresome.

work on educating men that not all woman are there for their entertainment

By saying that prostitution is a 'valid career choice' for women from poorer backgrounds? You don't think there might be some mixed messaging there?

The guys who raped the teacher didn't use 'I thought she was a prositute' as an excuse. They used it as a reason
They weren’t prosecuted so obviously it was a pretty good reason...

Yes. Disgusting, isn't it?