Harassment of children in legal red light zone in Holbeck

[LaserShark]

I’ve just read an article posted in a feminist group I’m part of on FB. It’s a Daily Mail article, detailing the harassment of young children in Holbeck where the legal red light zone is. Men offering parents money to rape their children. Most shockingly, a grandmother pushing a buggy with a four month old baby was offered money for an hour alone with the baby.

I can’t get the article out of my head. I don’t live a million miles away (thankfully not close) and it makes the these depraved men seem so much more real. I can’t understand how anyone could defend this legal zone - there has been a murder, rapes, sexual assault and it sounds like a free for all for all kinds of terrible men with monstrous appetites. And neither the council nor the police seem willing to help or even acknowledge the festering horror they have created, or allowed to exist openly. Somehow they have empowered these sick, twisted fuckers to feel able to ask to rape children in broad daylight; so pornsick and warped that they imagine this to be reasonable or likely or simply get a thrill from the violation of frightening and upsetting women and children by voicing their hideous thoughts. What is happening and why is no one acting to stop it?

Der Spiegel did a great feature on the reality of decrim in Germany, for anyone who's interested in how that's played out. It hasn't been in the way that those pushing the happy hooker myth would like you to believe.

But I don’t think a bunch of middle class white people who have probably never even spoken to a prostitute are best placed to decide what’s best for them.

Always with the 'white middle class' thing. Is a verbal tic for some people?

Imagine you’re from a place where no one does anything, you didn’t bother going to school and have no qualifications - perhaps you have children to feed. You could either work in a shop or similar (if you can get employed) earning £7.50 an hour, go on benefits and get £60 odd a week or work as a prostitute earning £££’s per day. My point being If someone chooses the latter option, there should be provisions in place to make it safe for her, criminalising something just puts it all in the hands of criminals.

I love how the answer to poverty and lack for a woman can so legitimately be for men to buy her body. It's an 'option'. Do you see it as an option for blokes too, or is it only women who should be used this way?

If a woman is starving then you should give her food to put in her mouth, not your cock.

Many of us have known women who've worked as prostitutes. Have you, Early? You might have a more realistic view of the industry if you talked to people who'd worked in it in real life rather than just on the internet.

www.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-trafficking-persists-despite-legality-of-prostitution-in-germany-a-902533.html

Early Walker thinks he/she is the only person on mn who ever grew up in a rough area and has (wow!) met a prostitute.

He/she thinks mn is full of white mc women- except for his extraordinary self, of course.

Oh look, someone who “loves sex” and worked as an escort and made squillions and had a great time has shown up.

Because most mps/politicians are white MC people! You can’t all seriously believe that’s not the case. I despair
Yes I agree you should give her food to put in her mouth, but people from these backgrounds will see it as a normal career choice and will have known several growing up.
If prostitution was legalised in a secure setting, it is safer for woman than being on the street and getting into random cars - hoping the girl next to her has taken down the reg Incase she gets murdered.
Speak to any on the street prostitute, who is doing it in this way. I’m sure each any every one of them would rather be in a secure setting, with panic buttons and security.

Most people posting on MN aren't politicians...

people from these backgrounds will see it as a normal career choice

That couldn't sound more classist if you'd tried. Some of us are from working class backgrounds, and know very well that nobody in our families ever saw prostitution as being the equivalent of working at Tesco.

Still waiting for early to post the policy/ evidence that "in Amsterdam for example all sex workers are visited by police daily".

Until that comes I'm going to assume that poster is not on the level.

people from these backgrounds will see it as a normal career choice

What a load of rubbish.

"Speak to any on the street prostitute, who is doing it in this way. I’m sure each any every one of them would rather be in a secure setting, with panic buttons and security."

And I'm sure the vast majority would rather not be doing it at all.

Bloody hell.

people from these backgrounds will see it as a normal career choice

For someone who did the 'white middle class' dig, this is an astonishing thing to say. I grew up in a setting like you describe. I'm very familiar with the ideas you espouse about what it's like to be in that situation. Even if some of the women I knew did end up on the game, and they did, none of them saw it as a 'normal career choice' and this veneer you're trying to coat it with is just lies.

but people from these backgrounds will see it as a normal career choice

Women and girls who end up being prostituted are often survivors of abusive childhoods certainly. Sexual abuse in childhood teaches girls that they have no right to bodily autonomy and that rape is 'normal'. This is not a reason to condone it.

Indeed. If my granny was still alive she'd be bloody livid.

Speak to any on the street prostitute, who is doing it in this way. I’m sure each any every one of them would rather be in a secure setting, with panic buttons and security.

Actually, in places where both is legal, like Vienna, street prostitution and brothels or managed rooms (panic button and all), women may still prefer street prostitution, as the rooms cost upwards 1600 EUR a months, and you are basically forced to earn that per months, while with street prostitution you are more flexible, and have a chance to avoid having a pimp.

I can't see that legalization did anything positive for the women (many will still prefer illegality, avoiding mandatory health checks...). And the fact that Western Europeam streets and brothels are flooded with women from dirt poor countries like Bulgaria and not by 'the natives' should give you a clue that this is not a 'happily free career choice'.

Wasnt there a Dutch politician who came out and said she used to be a prostitute but when she did it it was because she hated herself and she hated what was done to her?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5376077/Amsterdam-call-time-myth-happy-hooker.html

Earlywalker you are utterly wrong.

Now back in Romania, living in a hostel and in touch with her family, Angelica says: ‘I now understand I was trafficked, but then I didn’t even know the word.

'The problem is that once I was in that brothel, everybody just walked past smiling and waving, or glaring and laughing, including some of the police, because everything was perfectly legal.’

There have been some interesting commentaries from women who've worked in the legalized brothels in Nevada in the US too and who really weren't happy about that experience, and got out as quickly as they were able to. Anyone who thinks that women are likely to feel happy, safe, and respected in Germany's flat rate brothels (the ones that offer group packages and discounts for customers looking for that gang rape experience) must have something a bit faulty going on with their empathy circuits.

Wasnt there a Dutch politician who came out and said she used to be a prostitute but when she did it it was because she hated herself and she hated what was done to her?

Yes I think she's a senior member of Amsterdam council.

I've known women who've worked in pretty much every aspect of the sex industry over the years. None of them had the experience that Early seems to be imagining.

As the article says they have brought in a new law in Amsterdam this year with a potential four year sentence for having sex with a prostitute you know or suspect has been trafficked. We have a similar law here. But it's hardly ever used.

And obviously you're raping them, not "having sex with them".

Read the bit where she says men pissed on her, Early. Read the comments from "punters"

Of course it's hardly ever used, the police are doing fuck all when kids are approached for sex, why would they enforce the law about women in those nice, secure, off the street brothels? At least those women aren't working in a shop on minimum wage, though, eh?

God this place really is you hear what you want to hear and ignore the rest.

My point is - people will continue being prostitutes, it is safer for them to do so in a controlled setting. By making it illegal, it’s put in the hands of criminals, but that’s fine I understand you would rather they walk the streets.
No one should have to be a prostitute, I’m sure many don’t want to be. The stories you hear will be about those that are trafficked, which I never said didn’t exist and is awful. What’s the best way to stop these girls getting trafficked? Talk to them and monitor them. How can you do that if they’re all doing it under the radar?

Since you all love posting links that supports one view, perhaps I’ll do the same.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/holbeck-red-light-district-experiment-15182401.amp

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1083444002

Do none of you think that more crimes are reported when the victim is behaving legally? Will a drug dealer report that he’s been robbed? Of course not, because he will be worried about getting arrested himself.

For these girls, knowing they will not be criminalised for reporting trafficking/assault means they can speak up more, this will mean that statistics increase - of course, but it will also make them safer.

I can’t understand why no one believes this?

Also I wasn’t talking about mn’ers I was talking about politicians (the people who actually make decisions) but if the shoe fits, feel free to wear it.