Harassment of children in legal red light zone in Holbeck

[LaserShark]

I’ve just read an article posted in a feminist group I’m part of on FB. It’s a Daily Mail article, detailing the harassment of young children in Holbeck where the legal red light zone is. Men offering parents money to rape their children. Most shockingly, a grandmother pushing a buggy with a four month old baby was offered money for an hour alone with the baby.

I can’t get the article out of my head. I don’t live a million miles away (thankfully not close) and it makes the these depraved men seem so much more real. I can’t understand how anyone could defend this legal zone - there has been a murder, rapes, sexual assault and it sounds like a free for all for all kinds of terrible men with monstrous appetites. And neither the council nor the police seem willing to help or even acknowledge the festering horror they have created, or allowed to exist openly. Somehow they have empowered these sick, twisted fuckers to feel able to ask to rape children in broad daylight; so pornsick and warped that they imagine this to be reasonable or likely or simply get a thrill from the violation of frightening and upsetting women and children by voicing their hideous thoughts. What is happening and why is no one acting to stop it?

What a fab speech.

To anyone who is happy to call transactional sex legitimate work, I’d ask if they’d be happy if it was the career choice of their daughters, wives, mothers and sisters? And would they be happy to see “sex work” careers advice in schools?

Or get their Universal Credit sanctioned for saying no, not doing that.

This needs to be on the main boards. It affects everyone, not just feminists. 

TrashyTerf, feel free to share widely.

It might also be of interest that there was a standing ovation from most of the public gallery and many elected members. But not one single Labour councillor gave one single clap. (Cllr Field is an Independent)

Bastards, what the hell is wrong with people who can't see this for what it is.

Whilst I don’t disagree that legalisation increases demand and thus increase in trafficking, in Amsterdam for example all sex workers are visited by police daily and are also part of a union. One would hope that the purpose of this is so they can identify those trafficked easier than say, someone doing it on the streets hiding from police.

Do you not believe that this is another situation that comes down to choice? If a woman willingly want to sell her body to pay for a better life, that this choice should be open to them in a safe setting?

I think we also have to be careful with statistics about things once they become legal, more people will have been caught for trafficking within a legal setting, more woman would likely come forward and statistics can be skewed by changes to attitudes making it easier for people to speak up.

It’s worth pointing out, that the woman involved here have likely been doing sex work for a long time already, in a less safe setting.

Cllr Field nailed it!

So it's ok that more girls and women are trafficked because in Amsterdam the police will probably notice and then everything will be fine?

I thought Amsterdam had now realised it's been a big mistake.

Do you not believe that this is another situation that comes down to choice? If a woman willingly want to sell her body to pay for a better life, that this choice should be open to them in a safe setting?

No.

"in Amsterdam for example all sex workers are visited by police daily"

Every single one, every day?

I'd be interested in seeing some policy or evidence of that!

Before you even get into the fact that they can't possibly know about all of them.

EarlyWalker we are in agreement that decriminalisation increases trafficking. How many trafficked victims of daily repeated rape do you consider to be acceptable collateral damage in order to 'empower' one woman who believes herself to have chosen to be prostituted?

Yes they have, article linked upthread talks about it.

It might also be of interest that there was a standing ovation from most of the public gallery and many elected members. But not one single Labour councillor gave one single clap. (Cllr Field is an Independent)

Thank you for posting the wonderful speech. I am horrified by the information above though. Do you know, i honestly think that I can never vote Labour again after reading that. I can’t believe how sickened I feel right now.

I thought Amsterdam had now realised it's been a big mistake.

Yes they have, and they've been trying to reduce the red light district for over a decade. If prostituted women are being visited every day by the police its in response the the number of trafficked women.
I don't believe they have enough police officers to visit every woman every day.

Lets be charitable and assume Earlywalker is posting on the wrong thread, not one about rape and child abuse that is being ignored by the UK police.

What’s paramount is woman’s safety. Making something illegal doesn’t stop traffickers, they’re already doing something illegal. But decriminalising it, may help more woman who either want to make a living that way safely or helping those in a bad situation escape.

The ‘issue’ (can’t think of word) Amsterdam is having is tourists are just gawping and taking photos and not actually spending money, which means girls are leaving and windows are left empty.

Not everything is black and white. I grew up in a rough area and actually knew personally two on the street prostitutes and a number of female criminals, I think perhaps this may be where the routes of our opinions differ.

Lets be charitable and assume Earlywalker is posting on the wrong thread, not one about rape and child abuse that is being ignored by the UK police.
I’ve already said that’s awful, I’m clearly not talking about making rape and child abuse legal am I so what are you on about?

If only those tourists would spend their money and use those "girls"! That would definitely help.

The ‘issue’ (can’t think of word) Amsterdam is having is tourists are just gawping and taking photos and not actually spending money, which means girls are leaving and windows are left empty

That's an issue? There are less occupied windows?

I'm also wondering if you know what you are talking about. I always thought taking photos was very much frowned on - to the point that tourists who do risk getting their phones and cameras smashed.

I've only been in the Amsterdam red light zone once. It's a very small area. I know my way round Amsterdam pretty well. I was late and the quickest route to where I wanted to be was to cut through it rather than go round it. It's pretty grim.

Red light district prostitutes in Amsterdam are not visited every day by the police

I honestly think the sex industry needs to be more regulated and made safer for working girls. I've been an escort and I loved it, I love sex and I knew from quite young after uni that's what I wanted to do. I made fantastic money I'm now married with children. Woman shouldn't be walking the streets on their own, getting into cars it's wrong and dangerous. The screening that we have makes it nigh on impossible to meet a crank thank god, but these woman will, because they are meeting unfiltered men who deliberate choose to meet a girl for sex for £10, compared to an escort for £220 an hour in a hotel room. Maybe there is no difference from the name of prostitute, sex worker, escort etc but something needs to be done, it's one of the oldest professions in the world. Whether people like it or not some woman do actually choose to do this, I wasn't abused or bought up rough I do have a career in a certain field but this worked for me.

I actually watched the documentary on this holbeck place too most of the girls was drug addicts,
I think in a way the police let them do it just to let the girls run themselves into the ground.
If we had actual "brothels" I think a lot of these problems would be stopped I don't know how, but walking the street is wrong and the worst men of society are sniffing around them.

There were a lot of POs posting on the Lush threads earlier this year

I dont recall seeing many of them on these threads though.

The vast majority of testimony from ex prostitutes bears no resemblance to the happy hooker, I love sex and made a fortune minority. Whilst perhaps there are a small number of women for whom prostitution is a good thing, the damage it does is off the scale. The torture, rape, abuse and violence involved is terrifying and the hideous nature of the men who believe that women can be bought and sold becomes evident. I can’t believe that anyone can see what is happening in Holbeck and support decriminalisation. Similarly, read the testimony of ex-prostitutes from the legal brothels in Nevada. Read a menu from a legal brothel in Germany; if it doesn’t make you utterly despair then you must have no empathy or compassion or human decency.

The Labour Councillors of Leeds are a complete disgrace. Cllr Sarah Field’s speech is incredible.

I would also like to know who is responsible for creating this disaster in Holbeck. Who put the idea forward, who implemented it? Did it come from the council?

That's an issue? There are less occupied windows?
Read it in context and in response to the previous comments.

I always thought taking photos was very much frowned upon
It is, which is why the girls are leaving... that’s my point. A lot of them don’t tell their family that’s what they’ve gone to do, so if they see you taking a photo they will obviously be upset and have been known to throw your phone in the canal.

the vast majority of testimony bears no resembelance to the happy hooker
Whilst of course a lot of woman will dislike it, the majority of those testimony’s are from on the street prostitutes or sadly, trafficked girls. A lot of escorts and those who have done it by choice in a legalised way, do enjoy it. (Or at least the money you make)

I do think it’s damaging to woman that particularly on mumsnet, all woman are seen as victims. I’m assuming it’s just because you’ve never been of the that prostitution was an attractive choice. But I don’t think a bunch of middle class white people who have probably never even spoken to a prostitute are best placed to decide what’s best for them.

Imagine you’re from a place where no one does anything, you didn’t bother going to school and have no qualifications - perhaps you have children to feed. You could either work in a shop or similar (if you can get employed) earning £7.50 an hour, go on benefits and get £60 odd a week or work as a prostitute earning £££’s per day. My point being If someone chooses the latter option, there should be provisions in place to make it safe for her, criminalising something just puts it all in the hands of criminals.

Look at the reality of decriminalisation. Look at the German brothels and tell me that’s a better way to help the girls you’re talking about.