Ffs lib dems

[QuentinWinters]

Just opened my inbox to this little gem from the lib dems. I'm going to resign my membership I think.

Both I and my partner left the Lib Dems over the ex-Green joining. We are not over keen being in a party that welcomes those who employ child rapists as their election agents. The Lib Dems are a shadow of what they were.

I didn't get that one, and I get double of most things...

I find it hard to give too much of a fuck about this when none of us were going to vote libdem anyway.

The LDs welcome Aimee.
Aimee who has posted a picture of themselves, on a loft ladder, with a picture of a GG

I think you will find it's the LDs who should fuck off

Ah yes, New Libdem member who posted photo of self in front of a loft ladder...

Let me see if I understand: a woman is "transphobic" for being alarmed at the notion that self I'd will allow any man into women's and girls' spaces etc

Well VickyEadie Self-ID won't allow "any man" into womens/girls spaces. Thats just simply now how it works. Firstly, there is nothing currently stopping abusive/violent men from just walking into a womens toilet, and some do and that is an issue with male violence that we need to tackle and face as a society.

But the idea that there is a single abusive man who is not carrying out their abuse because they don't want to break into a womens space, and instead want to go through the process of legally changing their gender (which while self-ID will make it easier, it would still require them changing their legal gender and likely not being able to change it back easily, if at all), is just absurd and delusional. It just fundamentally misunderstands how abusive men behave.

their ability to compete in womens sport is based on hormone levels or whatever it is.

So you have no idea, but also feel able to state;

Your objections are unfounded.

😂

That can’t be true Budgie? That’s disgusting.

Transwomen are men who identify as women.

Wrong, Trans Women are Women, and Trans Women are Adult Human Females.

Orangesnake, I am assuming this means that the Lib Dem’s support self-ID for anyone who comes under the Stonewall trans-umbrella. And that where there is potentially conflict, for example the rights of women prisoners, or child protection principles, trans trumps all.

There is conflict. Even on an individual level I don’t want to have to share changing rooms with naked people with penises. I don’t want my mother with dementia to have to share a hospital ward or a care home room with someone she would consider a man. Prisons, women’s refuges, Girl Guides, Muslim students etc.

For most things I really don’t care. The person in the cafe last week may have been male or female or trans...honestly I have no idea even though I was trying to work it out. But the coffee was good and the sandwich was fine, so I will go back.

No doubt the LibDems with their fine carefully considered policies don’t consider my concerns as legitimate, and see them as on par with being racist, so plan to dismiss them altogether. However the reality of politics is that if a party dismisses my concerns I don’t vote for them. And there are more people like me, than those who are attracted by TWAW purism. (And the Labour Party is competing for that voter demographic as well.)

I live in a constituency which the LibDems see as one they could win from Labour. At the last election I explained to a charming elderly man that I was concerned about the aggressive/misogynistic tone used on the LibDem LGBT+++ twitter feed. He was unaware and promised to check. I won’t vote LibDems next time out. And perhaps the lovely canvasser will stay at home. LibDems will have the purist party they want, but they need to recognise that this will come at the expense of voter support.

Then why are they called trans women?

Some men would find the step of ‘changing gender’ part of the thrill.
Women are ‘delusional’ for thinking men would go out of their way to cause harm.
Mmmm hmmmn

orange
What's the difference between a man and a woman?

Careful OrangeTrouserSnake your misogyny is not only showing it's lit up in neon....

You're not saying anything we haven't heard before and your no more convincing than your predecessors who come here to tell women what to think.

You're just doing an invaluable job of demonstrating the feebleness of your points to the lurkers out there and your arrogance in dismissing legitimate and demonstrable concerns over women's rights.

OrangeSnake, do you have any concerns about the huge increase in children, especially girls, being referred to the Tavistock with gender dysphoria in recent years?

2009/10: 97: 57 boys; 40 girls.

2017/8: 2519 total; 713 boys; 1806 girls.

I'm concerned about that, massively. It has all the hallmarks of social contagion. Many of them left to themselves would eventually work through their gender dysphoria by early adult life. A lot of them would turn out to be gay men or lesbians. Instead they're convincing themselves and their parents that they have 'been born in the wrong body' and that they need binders, hormones and surgery to put matters right. Irreparable damage will be caused by this affirmation approach. Clinicians are being told they can't question it, even when it's obvious there are lots of other issues, e.g. autism, history of abuse, mental health problems such as depression/anxiety, self-harm, eating disorders. This is a disaster waiting to happen and everyone who has pushed this agenda uncritically is complicit.

(And please don't start talking about 'better a trans child than a dead child'. The irresponsible use of suicide statistics is a very shocking feature of this debate, totally in contravention of normal practice recommended by the Samaritans and adopted in other circumstances by the media.)

I don't think Orangesnake is endearing anyone to the Libdems with the complete dismissal of anyone's objections to self id or transwomen winning in womens sports like that charming Rachel.
I wonder why people like Orangesnake never seem to realise that we would like to hear arguments to the contrary, not the mantra TWAW, say it like you believe it or you are mean.

Trans Women are Adult Human Females.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Wrong, Trans Women are Women, and Trans Women are Adult Human Females.

Your ideology is a religion. You are spouting slogans. You even capitalise it like a slogan.

Needmoresleep I honesty don't know what you expect my answer to your point to be? You may well not see your views on trans rights as being comparable to racists views on immigration, but the manner in which "GC" people talk, and the content of what you want means that to liberals like us thats all it comes across as. It just comes across as reactionary pushback against progress.

You may well have concerns about who you are changing with, and who your mother is sharing a ward with, but those concerns just simply aren't going to change our policy or our minds.

And there are more people like me, than those who are attracted by TWAW purism.

Even if this is true, which I would seriously doubt. Its the equivalent of saying that there are more anti-EU votes so we should abandon our pro EU stance and become a staunch brexit party. We just aren't going to do that, because it goes against our fundamental values and principles as a party. We have had a explicitly pro-trans stance since the 90s, and a pro-lgbt stance since the 70s.

So, @OrangeSnake is in full-on #NODEBATE you're all hateful transphobes for having any questions about the official party line mode.

It's pitiful that all you can do is post abuse towards women who have concerns, and just parrot the same meaningless phrases over and over. Sad as I am not to be able to vote Lib Dem, I can see it's the right decision.

No one thinks transwomen are actually female, come on now.

Just argue what you actually think, which is that men should be allowed to call themselves female.

Saying that males are actually female makes you look totally insane 🤪

There you go, Needmoresleep, you and your mum aren't important. Good to have that spelled out.

I strongly suspect if the general public had the full facts, i.e. that most men who identify as transgender are not going to have any surgery, they'd be right there with Needmoresleep and the rest of us on this thread. Women have a right to say no. It is not like a white person saying they don't want a black nurse. Women are the oppressed group here, in relation to men. We worked hard to get the right to say no and to get sex-segregated spaces for our own safety, privacy and dignity, and we're not giving it up without a fight.

OrangeSnake, do you have any concerns about the huge increase in children, especially girls, being referred to the Tavistock with gender dysphoria in recent years?

No Bittermints I don't have concerns about that. And as a lgb person who is very comfortable in the gender/sex they were designated at birth, I seriously object to your insinuation (and the insinuation that lots of "gender critical" people spout) that the existence of trans people and assistance for young trans people is somehow homophobic and turning otherwise lgb people into trans people when all they are is gender noncomforning. Thats just simply a lie, and trying to turn lgb people against trans people and its disgusting. Please don't speak for me or any other lgb people because we don't share your agenda.

I think that people, even young people, should be free to explore themselves and life their lives as they wish. May that be as a gender non-conforming lesbian, a gender conforming gay man, a gender noncomforming bisexual trans man or a gender conforming straight trans women. It is no concern to me how many people have gender dysphoria.

bittermints
I'd also imagine someone who was racist would refuse a black nurse in all circumstances. If a transwoman wants to take my blood pressure, give me an injection, apply a bandage. No problem. Smear test? Not gonna happen. And that's the same for any man.

Because its not democratic because there are numerous in your party who are frightened to speak out. Possibly as they would be told to fuck off.
And if you are involved in the party you will know that despite this there are many in the party raising concerns.