Ffs lib dems

[QuentinWinters]

Just opened my inbox to this little gem from the lib dems. I'm going to resign my membership I think.

Lib Dem and Green secret societies. Does anyone know of a Labour Party one? My membership of LP is hanging on by a thread, and I will go elsewhere if I can find a party that has a sizeable GC group.

Thanks, ecosomething Your sterling efforts are part of what has inspired us.

weekfour I was blocked as soon as I queried the red carpet being rolled out for Aimee Challenor. The LGBT Libdem Twitter account is only looking for affirmation. I gather Sarah Brown has a lot to do with running it.

The whole thing is deeply depressing, but I'm not ready to give up quite yet.

It’s an unusual email - I can’t remember receiving anything like that before. We get a lot of stuff about helping in elections, donating money and internal party stuff, but - apart from Brexit campaigns - I can’t think of another email asking me to do something specific for an individual non-party campaign. This seems to be very much Sal’s personal initiative.

Interestingly, not many people seem to be heeding the call. I’ve got a lot of Lib Dems on my Twitter and Facebook feeds, and I’ve only seen one person referring to #transawarenessweek. Had a quick look at all the MPs and only Vince has done a video- nobody else has even mentioned it.

As a libdem member, I am sure that there will be no value lost from the few people who have an issue with that email. The party has continually supported trans rights, and has had pro-trans rights policies for almost its entire history. Those who have an issue with an email like this, which regardless on your views on specific policies like self ID, is about supporting trans people and the trans community, probably don't belong in the party.

That's great @OrangeSnake - you don't want to address or acknowledge any of the concerns or points made by women who don't toe the party line. Just a flat #nodebate and you're not welcome in our party anyway.

Well AssassinatedBeauty, I don't really recognise the "concerns" of women who oppose trans equality/rights as being legitimate, in the same way that I and the party refuse to recognise the "legitimate concerns" of racists who have an issue with immigration.

People are free to disagree with the party line and party policy, I do on plenty of issues, but there are core values that the party stands by which equality and fighting for the rights of individuals is a main part of, and so I would argue that being anti-trans rights is fundamentally incompatible with being a Lib Dem.

Orange snake, there is a lot of devil in the detail. Saying ‘we support transrights’ is not enough. What do you mean by trans? What rights don’t trans people have. Do rights for trans people automatically trump other people’s rights when there is a conflict, and why?

If the LibDems are claiming to be a grown up political party with aspirations to form, or help form, a Government, they need to do better than merely repeat slogans. They need to listen and consider and eventually be able to justify their policies.

Or perhaps they don’t have such aspirations so are content with woke student politics. Good to know that Lily Madigan has a home when Labour tire of her.

No one is opposing trans rights. Just don't take away women's rights or dismantle safeguarding.
Its not difficult.

orangesnake
could you define 'anti-trans' please?
Does it include for example:

1. Not wanting a male rapist with a fully functioning penis being put into a woman's prison?
2. Not wanting biological males to compete in what have, until now, been sex-segregated sports?

because, yes, I would be guilty of both of those.

Needmoresleep The libdems have lots and lots of detailed policy on most issues, we have two conferences a year and pass motions and long policy papers on a range of issues.

We have passed countless motions in support of trans rights, including self-ID and other stuff. To quote just one of the parts of the last manifesto that dealt with trans rights (other parts include having X option on passports, removing the spousal veto ext.)

Extend protection of gender reassignment in equality law to explicitly cover gender identity and expression, and streamline and simplify the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to allow individuals to change their legal gender without unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles, for example the intrusive medical tests currently required.

There fundamentally is no conflict between trans rights and other peoples rights.

OrangeSnake

Those who have an issue with an email like this, which regardless on your views on specific policies like self ID, is about supporting trans people and the trans community, probably don't belong in the party.

In other words, fuck off, cunty women with your silly concerns.

Orange Snake

UpstartCrow Well nobody arguing for trans rights is taking away or wants to take away womens rights or dismantle safeguarding

Juells No, just transphobes should fuck off. There are countless women in the libdems who stand up and fight for trans rights.

orange
What about the rights of women to compete in single sex sports?

howlsmovingcastle84 What about it? Trans people don't stop the existence of womens only sport. Trans women are women, and their ability to compete in womens sport is based on hormone levels or whatever it is. Your objections are unfounded.

I think the liberal democrats would be wise to understand what liberal democracy is. Its a teeny tiny identity crisis which isn't a minor issue.

And what about the trans people who say that the lib dem policy isn't helpful, and puts their current rights - to health care for example - at risk?

Are they the wrong type of trans people with the wrong opinion on their own rights. Should they fuck off too?

Just so we have it clarified.

I think it's pretty clear what OrangeSnake thinks of womens concerns given that he/she put them in quote marks.

Looking forward to them explaining how self-ID can possibly work without impacting negatively on the rights and safety of women and girls.

My question was -what about the rights of women to compete in single sex sports? Note the words 'single sex'. So you don't think women should have that right anymore. So that's one right we can agree has been lost.

Balls. (As it were.) How is an averagely sized woman meant to compete on a level playing field with an averagely sized man? That’s why we have sex segregation in sports. Trans identification or hormone levels don’t change that.

Let me see if I understand: a woman is "transphobic" for being alarmed at the notion that self I'd will allow any man into women's and girls' spaces etc. and is not allowed even to raise such issues. That's the "Liberal Democrat" stance, is it?

"Hormone levels are whatever it is", you say, demonstrating you know bugger all about sport before then going on to say "your fears are unfounded". How do you know our fears are unfounded when your knowledge of trans people in sports is limited to the vague notion that it is something to do with hormone levels?

cheddar
Maybe the lib Dems are the official sponsor of the ducking under the bar event?

Somebody at a proper laptop post up some of the already available examples of how men are invading - and thereby destroying - women's sports for our uninformed friend, will you?

And what about the trans people who say that the lib dem policy isn't helpful, and puts their current rights - to health care for example - at risk?

They are free to disagree RedToothBrush, but our policy was written with the influence of our own trans members, and passed by the membership at our conference. Its a democratic process, and the existence of some trans people who disagree with that policy isn't really relevant? Why should their view trump the view of our trans members (who are larger in number) and of the democratic decision of conference?

There fundamentally is no conflict between trans rights and other peoples rights.

There is sometimes a conflict between men's and women's interests, sport being one. Transwomen are men who identify as women. We shouldn't lose sight of that. Reality matters.