Trans Awareness Week

[Thingybob]

As it's Trans Awareness Week I wanted to give a shout out to all the old school Trans folk who are busy getting on with their lives and are not so vocal online.

Peace and acceptance to you all
xx

The reason men with mh problems kill isn’t because they have mh problems, if it was all the women with mh problems would go around killing at the same rates. They kill because it’s male violence.

Poc are not a control group to compare men to because poc also contain men.

Given your suggestion seems to be to get the women to do it, I'm not really sure what your point is here.

I wasn't saying women should do it. I was saying that putting the responsibility for the actions of a comparatively small number of individuals onto the other members of their wider class isn't a good approach.

Why not?

Peer pressure is proven to be extremely effective. You can see it in action every day.

If not peers, then who? The tooth fairy?

I wasn't saying women should do it. I was saying that putting the responsibility for the actions of a comparatively small number of individuals onto the other members of their wider class isn't a good approach.

Well, it's better than putting it onto a different class. If men take responsibility for male (XY natal penis) violence & women for female (XX natal vagina female) I think that would be reasonable.

And that would also mean that if transwomen are unable to use male spaces because of violence, MEN need to make them safe. Not to ask women to become less safe.

"If men take responsibility for male (XY natal penis) violence & women for female (XX natal vagina female) I think that would be reasonable."

How though? Genuine question? Because I don't take responsibility for escalating female violence.

How can you tell whether it's actually escalating though, when the likes of Karen West, Davina Ayrton & Jacinta Brooks are recorded as female?

You're the one that wants to take responsibility for it, include or exclude who you want. I'm asking what you are doing about it?

Well, it's better than putting it onto a different class. If men take responsibility for male (XY natal penis) violence & women for female (XX natal vagina female) I think that would be reasonable.

Why not try to deal with it as a society? It makes more sense to me than trying to play the blame game/pass the hot potato. A non violent man is no more guilty for the behaviour of violent men than a non violent woman is.

Ignoring the fact that men from low socioeconomic backgrounds are also more likely to commit violence, the common argument seems to be that because men as a class commit more violence they should as a class commit to solving it. By this logic, POC should all commit to tackling the increased crime rates exhibited by their class.

Agree with this @ScottCheggJnr

Both same argument.
If there's any increased crime rates in POC then all POC of should be responsible.
Same argument, right?

Men aren't interested in sorting it out though.

It is framed as a "womens issue".

We have been trying since the dawn of time to get men to stop treating us in a variety of ways > part of the prevalence of male VAW stems from a dysfuntional view of women by men. VAW is worse in countries where women have less rights / are seen more as chattel. And yet still we are told we must sort it out. How exactly?

Men also seem to care little about violence against other men.

It's a bit odd.

Women saying men you need to sort this out, is more about, why dont;t men in general care about this? They run the world, not women, how is it up to us to stop something that we are not doing and we have so little power to stop? We have been trying for milennia and failed.

Men are the dominant class, as are white people, so the class with the power and privilege need to use that power and privilege to protect the classes that are more vulnerable.

That’s an incredibly simple fact to grasp, trying to twist it is just manipulating the conversation and shows how disengenuious certain posters are being.

But a class is really just a lot of individuals who are all responsible for their own actions. I've never seen a feminist discuss what they personally are doing to combat the rise in female violence so it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the average man who is likely most occupied with providing for his family needs to concern himself with the actions of others.

Law enforcement is something that is dealt with by the police and legal system.

I've never seen a feminist discuss what they personally are doing to combat the rise in female violence

We're trying to get the police to stop categorising male offenders who self-id as women as "women". That'll get the statistics down.

"But a class is really just a lot of individuals who are all responsible for their own actions" - Ah, the Thatcher argument.

Loads of feminists discuss what they are personally doing to help with women's rights. Plenty of posts about good charities to support etc, women saying that they work for certain orgs, or volunteer for them. Women discussing meeting up for marches, or signing petitions, writing to MPs etc.

If you've managed to miss all of that your reading must be quite selective.
I assume you mean just on here and not that no eminists in the world in any capacity have ever taken and told about taking actions aimed at reducing violence against women?
There were protests in Ireland after the recent rape case for example - it was in the news yesterday.

Why deal with classes rather than society as a whole when trying to solve problems? ANswer, because it’s usually more effective.

So sex based violence is one type of crime. Poverty inspired violence another. Drug related another. They have some different causes so different actions are needed.

I would argue that Having society rules that respect the differences between men and women helps reduce sex based violence. Would do nothing for poverty driven crime though.

Apart from women are much more likely to be in poverty than men > recent UN rapporteur thing is clear on this + that it is a deliberate policy by the govt

Which is the intersection of poverty and sex

Women in poverty are more likely to be sole carers and provdiers for children etc

This is what intersectionality was supposed to be about before some privileged men saw it as a tool by which they could identify out of privilege and opt into some of the mechanisms that were put in place to try and give a leg up to those who were genuinely disadvantaged.

We're trying to get the police to stop categorising male offenders who self-id as women as "women". That'll get the statistics down.

But unless you believe these individuals are genuinely female, you're not helping to reduce female violence. I'm talking about things like the horrific Marian Moustafa case which was pretty much ignored on here despite being mentioned several times - the cynical side of me presumes because it was a girl gang who killed her so no opportunity to blame men. In fact, I remember posters asking for the post to be moved out of fem chat and into news section (doubt this would've happened had it been a group of men who killed her).

It was horrendous. She'd already been attacked by the same gang and her sister's arm allegedly broken. And on the day she was beaten to death she asked the bus driver not to let the gang onto the bus (which he did). And then her sister mentioned that the killers were laughing on social media about her being on life support. Had there not been outrage in Egypt then I wonder if anything would've been done.

Yes you're right

Women are totally cool with women and girls being murdered by other women and girls, we don't care about that at all

We do go on about when men kill women are girls > logically then not because we care about the victims then either but as a stick to beat men and boys with because we hate them.

MRA logic scott could you be more revealing? Everything you write shouts what your views are, while I'm sure you think you are being subtle and persuasive and oh so objective.

The reason women are concerned about male violence primarily is becasue the vast vast majority of violence committed against womena and girls (and men and boys and animals for that matter) is carried out by men.The vast vast vast majority of it. Sex offences are statistically almost always carried out by men > to the point that women doing it can and is seen as an aberration.

The reason for not wantign male violence inlucded in female crime stats is because it quickly erodes the stark statistical differential in male vs female levels of committing violent & sexually motivated crime and allows people, not looking at anyone in particular here,to say "women are as bad as men it's a people problem going on about it being men means you are a man hater".

I can fully understand why you don't want male patterns of violence being logged as female acts. I was more saying that if men have to tackle male violence (obv the majority of violence) then women have to do the same.

But really, I'd rather we tackle it as a society as we do with things like extremism which affect us widely.

Rationally, everyone in society has a role in reducing violence. Practically, those in positions of power have a greater role.those positions of power include law makers and people of high esteem in society , because they make the rules, the6 determine policing priorities. Because people listen and respect them.

So it really needs those, predom8natly Male, people to be stepping up. Showing respect for other people including women. Not excusing men who abuse their power. Not assuming that women always lie about abuse. Treating misogyny as a serious issue not someth8ng to be harrumphed over

Random numbers...I hope you can translate. A reboot may be needed.

I agree that, realistically, it will likely be men that have to sort it out due to the power demographics. However, it's the way it's used as an excuse to endlessly slate men that irks me.

Yes, most violence is committed by men but it's still not most men. Not even many proportionally. And feminists even have a derisive counter in NAMALT for when people point out the obvious.

And there's also the fact that men brought up by women (sonoge parents) are disproportionately likely to offend and be violent, so there is a good argument that women need to help solve this issue.

Do you think irking you is a good reason for feminists to stop drawing attention to the reality and impact of male violence on women, girls, boys and men all over the world?