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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:46

Yep aspie
It’s the reality. It’s like something from
The Handmaid’s Tale.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 23:48

Anyone going through this would know the risks.

Do they? Some people even seem to think that people can change sex, so I wouldn't be too sure.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 23:49

House mum, you’ll drive your child away. My trans daughter didn’t take blockers, but I wish she had.

I wasn’t referring to Mumsnet blocking me - elsewhere on twitter where I see the same horrid comments.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:50

Well could be oldcrone
If so, how depressing is that?
A quick google will tell you what puberty blockers do. It’s like we’ve fallen down a rabbit hole.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 24/10/2018 23:51

Nobody is talking about sterilising children.

But we are. That's what happens if you put children on puberty blockers and hormones, Feminist4. Sterility and loss of sexual function. You surely know that. And it'd be very wrong if Butterfly fails to spell this long term consequences out.

That's what's so wrong with things like that fucking gender gingerbread figure. It's all unicorns and rainbows. Until it's not. Sad

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:52

And that’s not nasty at all feminist?
You are really starting to make yourself look foolish.
Thanks for sharing house. Goes to show.

Noqont · 24/10/2018 23:53

Just in case you're unsure, shouting 'bigot' and 'transphobe' at us isn't debate, it's abuse.

Yep. This.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 23:53

I think butterfly has been very balanced in its views. Do you know anyone who has been on blockers?

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 23:54

Housemum Flowers
Have you seen this blog?
lilymaynard.wordpress.com

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:54

Me? Yes.
Biggest mistake of their life. They say.

AornisHades · 24/10/2018 23:57

Feminist you do realise that including 'experts' in your people who should decide means you're transphobic?
Self ID means no experts are involved. It's a feeling and does not require expert validation.

Rebecca36 · 24/10/2018 23:59

Yes indeed, Prawnofthepatriarchy, they make for frightening reading.

Of course I would refer to a transwoman as 'her' and call her by whatever name she chose. Also defend her against any harrassment or prejudice. However that would not make her a woman even if she thinks like one, chromosomally she remains a man.

Noqont · 25/10/2018 00:00

Now the biggest barrier to her happiness is the lack of acceptance from others.

You cannot rely on others to accept or validate you. Happiness and acceptance of one's self needs to be found within. I doubt anyone here would be rude or offensive to your child. You cannot however police their thoughts and insist they believe what you do. Personally I think butterfly's is a hugely irresponsible programme and the suicide stats are hugely flawed. This in itself is incredibly dangerous. More research needs to be done on social contagion and other reasons why so many children are suddenly taking this route. It is essential that this is addressed for safeguarding purposes.

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 00:07

If it were a phase it would pass in lots cases it does though but people are impatient and don’t give it enough time.

I have a very close relative who for many years dressed in ‘boys’ clothes, had a ‘boys’ haircut, said she wished she was a boy, played with ‘boys’ clothes, wanted a male name, etc etc.

She is now married to a man and has DC and is very much happy that she is a woman. Her parents told her that she could wear whatever she wanted, have her hair how she liked, do whatever hobbies interested her but unfortunately no matter how much she wanted to be a boy she was a girl and it wasn’t possible to change that.

It wasn’t until her mid 20’s that she felt happy with who she was but she says the thought of going through this now terrifies her and she would have definitely been classed as transgender, possibly given irreversible life altering treatment and not had her DC.

The above is far from an isolated incident.

Just let these kids dress how they want, have their hair how they want, wear make up if they want to, not if they don’t, play with whatever, do football/rugby/ballet/tap without any pressure or any discussion of ‘feeling like a girl’ or being ‘born in the wrong body’. If you are a boy who likes barbies, glitter, make up, dresses then fantastic, you are an amazing boy who likes barbies, make up, dresses. You probably look amazing and have fun and yes, people are ignorant and may tease you etc but you are not a girl and as much as you may want to, unfortunately it isn’t possible to change sex so don’t give kids this illusion.

Fairenuff · 25/10/2018 00:25

Nobody is talking about sterilising children.

Hang on, I thought we were talking about the programme, Butterfly, where the mother wants to put the child on puberty blockers. It's widely known that they cause sterilisation. Did you not know this?

scotsheather · 25/10/2018 01:17

Kardashianlove fantastic post. Unlikely to happen for boys for a generation or so but much simpler than castration, sterilisation and mutilation.

foxyliz26 · 25/10/2018 01:19

Us old Crusty feminist lesbians who have been around a lot longer than most dealing with all LGBT people on gay switchboards and counselling people

we have no issues with Transsexuals , whom many we count as friends , neither do we have any issues with Mermaids or the TV Drama Butterfly

We re watched the first episode and then the second straight after at one of our womens dinner partys Sunday, all 12 females , we all thought it was quite true to life to what we have experinced in our day to day lives , we all are Proffesional women , some straight some Lesbians

Those of you who object you knew what the subject was about , and you knew you wouldn't like it , but you went ahead and watched the two episodes and were expecting to hate it , and did , why not watch something else

Rebecca36 · 25/10/2018 02:43

Kardashianlove, very good post, thank you.

Coyoacan · 25/10/2018 05:27

So good, kind, gentle feminists think it is cruel and unkind not to want children to be sterilised and incapable of ever experiencing sexual pleasure.

Last heard, poor Leo couldn't even have a proper pseudo-vagina made for him because the puberty-blockers stopped his penis from growing to the required length.

We that object to children being subjected to this are full of hatred, but not for the children, for the people aiding and abetting this child abuse. The experts that advise frightened parents, among others.

ohello · 25/10/2018 06:11

The Times recently published an article by Janice Turner, who found that the actual rate of suicide among young trans is 1%
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suicides-should-never-be-a-political-weapon-w0jlhn5v0

Suicide is a dark trope in the trans movement. Parents who hesitate over medical intervention are told by some activists: “Better a living daughter than a dead son.” The ITV drama Butterfly, an infomercial for the trans support group Mermaids, is based upon the story of its CEO Susie Green, who took her child to Thailand for genital surgery at 16 (which was illegal in Britain and is now illegal in Thailand) and features a graphic suicide attempt. Mermaids cites high suicide rates in trans youth to push for faster, younger access to hormones and surgery. Ms Green told MPs that Gids (the NHS’s youth gender identity development service) has a suicide attempt rate of 48 per cent. This was based upon a self-selecting sample of 27 trans people aged under 26 analysed by the LGBT charity Pace.

The sane, compassionate response is more research. Let’s pull out the serious case reviews of every teen suicide to examine all possible causes, including newspaper reporting. Surely Mermaids would welcome proper, independent, methodologically-sound scientific inquiry. In the meantime, the most reliable source is Gids which says of 5,000 young patients referred between 2016 and August this year, there were three suicides and four attempts. Each death is the deepest tragedy, yet this makes a suicide rate of less than 1 per cent. Moreover, Gids director Dr Polly Carmichael has warned that suicidal discourse is “quite unhelpful”, creating a narrative around gender-diverse children “imbued with negativity and lack of resilience.”

people who have had transition surgery are 19 times more likely than average to die by suicide (probably because they realize the surgery is not going to relieve their suffering.) journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 07:12

All your stats are wrong. You post a single alleged blog from someone who has changed their view - probably created by one of you, to support your erroneous views.

Feeling suicidal because you think you are in the wrong body is common. Transitioning makes trans people much happier.

Very few trans people regret or change their minds.
Most of the stats and arguments on here are false lies.

nottakingthisanymore · 25/10/2018 07:24

Prove it then.

continuallychargingmyphone · 25/10/2018 07:25

The T has taken over and engulfed the L and the G. It’s most frustrating.

Feminist I do have some sympathy here. Feeling you don’t belong even to your own sex and even to your own family is rubbish.

Weird as it sounds, I keep thinking of Babe, the pig Grin who’s behaviour was dog like to the end. Still a pig, though.

Belindabauer · 25/10/2018 07:27

All I can say is that as a child of someone had offered to take away my breasts, stop my periods and stop the onset of female puberty, then yes, I would have gladly gone ahead.
I found being female horrendous as an adolescent.
I am not a man though.
Just pointing out facts.

HandsOffMyRights · 25/10/2018 07:34

*Very few trans people regret or change their minds

Even if you could prove that in adults, you can"t for children, for obvious readons.

Stop transing kids!