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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 21:56

Someone needs to be 'judgy'. Some people are showing a distinct lack of judgement in giving puberty blockers to under 16s for a start. Isn't Dr Webberley's sentencing next week?

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 21:58

It's not easy to get puberty blockers. I wish my daughter had been able to get them.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 22:00

Seriously feminist? Is your username ironic then?

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 22:01

I am a feminist. I just don't exclude trans women.

HopeGarden · 24/10/2018 22:02

In episode 1, the suicide attempt seems to be triggered by Max/Maxine’s reaction to the parents separation and the parents starting to form new relationships.

Parents separating and finding new romantic partners is a reality for many children, and one that’s completely unrelated to the children’s gender identity.

Theyprobablywill · 24/10/2018 22:04

This reply has been deleted

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Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 22:04

But it was her wanting to identify as a girl that meant the father left.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 22:04

Depicting suicide as a way to get what you want (in this case for the child's parents to get back together) is totally irresponsible.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 22:05

Sorry - should have been attempting suicide.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 22:06

That’s an oxymoron. Trans woman are not women I’m afraid.
Humans can’t change sex it’s a biological fact.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 22:07

But it was her wanting to identify as a girl that meant the father left.

Did you watch the programme? It was because the father hit the child for wanting to dance and wear pretty clothes. Something that both boys and girls should be allowed to do.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 22:09

The father hitting the child because she was dressing as a girl meant he left. Exactly. The child thought it was her fault.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 22:11

Exactly old
I can’t believe that Alison steadman was ok this awful show. I’m a big fan normally.
All kids should just wear what they want; who cares?
It’s the stupid stereotypes that are the problem.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 22:12

‘Dressing as a girl’ what does that even mean? It’s always gone on. Like kids pretend to be animals. Ridiculous statement.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 22:13

But there is a difference between just dressing up as a girl from time to time and feeling you are a girl in the wrong body.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 22:15

There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body. There just isn’t. It’s a ridiculous fad being fanned by people that want access to women’s spaces and want women put back in their place, as they see it.

RiverTam · 24/10/2018 22:15

But how can a boy know how a girl feels? I can understand feeling uncomfortable in your own body, we all do that at some stage, but how can one possibly know how someone else’s body feels?

I do think that a lot of this is not people identifying as the opposite sex, but not wanting to identify as their own sex.

HopeGarden · 24/10/2018 22:16

But it was her wanting to identify as a girl that meant the father left.

Even so. Many parents separate and divorce. It’s a reality that plenty of children have to adjust to. It’s also not unusual for children to feel they’re somehow to blame, even when its not their fault at all.

Showing a child’s attempted suicide as an effective method of reuniting their parents is irresponsible to say the least.

LangCleg · 24/10/2018 22:17

That message - that attempting suicide is an effective way to get what you want - is a very, very irresponsible and dangerous message to send out.

Also the sexualisation sequences.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 22:18

The child in the programme wanted to wear pretty clothes and to dance - like his sister. Why is wearing a pretty top and a skirt 'dressing as a girl'?

How hard is it to see that girl - wears pretty clothes and dances - parents are happy. Boy does the same and parents are unhappy and father gets violent. Boy thinks that if he was a girl everything would be OK.

If the parents had been happy with him dancing and wearing pretty clothes, would he still have thought he needed to be a girl to do the things he wanted to?

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 22:18

All young teens feel uncomfortable at some point but in the past kids grew past that. Now we are allowing them to chop bits of themselves and end their fertility.
The woman behind mermaids had her son castrated at 16. How could this possibly ever be ok???

RitaFairclough · 24/10/2018 22:20

Is there any other kind of experience than a lived experience? Such an odd phrase.

LangCleg · 24/10/2018 22:20

Also, see: criticism of 13 Reasons Why. Graphic depictions of suicide, suicide attempts and self-harm among young people, especially when used as emotional manipulation for a political cause, are harmful. We know about contagion. I find it quite amazing to see that 13 Reasons can be critiqued but Butterfly can't, despite the critique being exactly the same.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 22:23

Mrskeats. It is not a fad. That is the point that few on here get. If it were a phase it would pass. It isn't.

VelvetReVulva · 24/10/2018 22:24

I keep wondering what feeling like you’re in the wrong body must feel like. As a woman, I feel like it’s a daily battle between hormones, horrendous periods, endometriosis, pregnancy illnesses and injuries and on and on, not even going into the years of sexual comments and gestures from childhood onwards.

I wouldn’t say I feel that I’m in the right body, it’s just a physical reality. I think we’d be better off if the concept of gender had never been invented. Sex is sex is sex.

As for pronouns, I was reading a tweet recently about somebody trying to help a friend’s dad who was worried about meeting them and getting their ‘they, them, their’ pronouns right, they went on about how they had said he could think of them as ‘having a mouse in their pocket’ to refer to them as ‘they’ etc. Cue countless ‘how sweet and wonderful’ replies.

I genuinely can’t fathom being that self obsessed. Humans are really quite special aren’t they, getting het up about what ‘gender’ we are, while meanwhile destroying the planet as quickly as possible.