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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 23:08

I have and I did.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 23:09

I think it is for the child, the family and the experts to decide what is best - not the people on these boards.

We are allowed to have an opinion, though.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:09

I’ve looked at your posting history so I don’t really understand what you are after here feminist. Many people disagree with you and that’s not changing.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 23:11

Totally agree, OrchidInTheSun.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:13

Yep orchid puts it v succinctly.
It must be v hard to be a young lesbian or gay man currently. They are being erased.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 23:20

Nobody is being erased. That seems to be your fear - based on tittle tattle. I'm here on these boards so young women trans or not, who stray into this web of hatred, see that there is another point of view and your views only represent a tiny minority.

cockblocker · 24/10/2018 23:26

Feminist4 - that's very kind of you. And I trust we will be welcome to also post our views on the TRA sites?

cockblocker · 24/10/2018 23:27

Feminist4 - also, size isn't everything...

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:30

Lol cock
I really don’t think our views are in the minority.
Most people feel sterilising children is wrong.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 23:32

Where's the hatred Feminist4? One of the reasons I post here is because I fear that there will be thousands of young people in this generation who have been swept along on this tide who will regret doing so when they are older. The modifications to their bodies are irreversible and many of them will be left sterile and mutilated. Is that hatred?

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 23:34

Nobody is talking about sterilising children. Mrskeats this is mumsnet not a website against trans women. What is obvious is that these so called radical feminists who argue against trans rights don't actually want a debate. They just want to shout the loudest and refuse to listen to the arguments. This is hippocriticsl because they claim to want a debate, but block anyone who disagrees with their views.

Sicario · 24/10/2018 23:36

I had a response today too:

Dear [me]

Thank you for your email concerning ITV's new drama Butterfly.

We note your comments and appreciate you sharing [redacted] with us.

Butterfly is not a documentary programme about the issue of gender dysphoria in children, although of course it does feature a child character with gender dysphoria. It is not “dominated” by any agenda, other than the desire to engage viewers in the fictional story of these characters, and to increase viewers’ empathy and understanding for families and children facing similar situations and experiences.

The drama depicts a particular fictional family, and the struggle of separated parents who love their child and each other, but who cannot agree on how best to help their child. It does not claim to represent anyone else’s story, or draw upon statistics to “prove” a particular view of how best to help children in this position. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

I can confirm that your comments and concerns have been logged here at ITV and will be fed back to the relevant teams.

May I take this opportunity to thank you for taking the time to contact us here at ITV Viewer Services.

If we can be of further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind regards,

Charlie

ITV Viewer Services Supervisor

ITV Viewer Services | ITV plc
Tel: 0344 88 14150 | [email protected]
Hours of Opening: 09.00 - 20.00 Mon-Fri, 12.00 - 20.00 Sat. Closed on Sundays, Christmas Day, Boxing Day & Easter Monday.
ITV plc Head Office Tel +44 (0) 20 7157 3000 itv.com

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 23:38

Ooh well done Mary Whitehouse.

LizzieSiddal · 24/10/2018 23:38

It very much came across to me, as a child unhappy about his parents separation attempting suicide in order to stop his mum going on a date with a new man. And then because of the suicide attempt, dad moves back home.

That message - that attempting suicide is an effective way to get what you want - is a very, very irresponsible and dangerous message to send out.

This X 1000.

So irresponsible of ITV, the writers and everyone involved.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 23:39

Nobody is talking about sterilising children.

What do you think happens when a child is put on puberty blockers so that they don't go through puberty, then onto cross-sex hormones (still without going through puberty)? No mature gametes = sterile.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:39

Puberty blockers cause sterility. What are you on about?

cockblocker · 24/10/2018 23:40

Feminist4 - R U OK?

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 23:40

Your concern for these children would touch my heart if I didn't know it was poisonous.

LizzieSiddal · 24/10/2018 23:40

This is hippocriticsl because they claim to want a debate, but block anyone who disagrees with their views.

Hmm What are you taking about? You can’t block anyone on Mumsnet.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 24/10/2018 23:40

I think it is for the child, the family and the experts to decide what is best - not the people on these boards.

There's every reason we should discuss an ethical hot potato on a parenting forum, Feminist4.

As for experts, NHS experts take much the same line as Transgender Trend, whereas Mermaids push hard for greater and earlier medication. That's unsurprising given Susie Green's track record. She's not someone who's parenting I'd wish to emulate.

In the past we've heard from an ex Mermaids member how other parents used to discuss ways of getting medication the NHS wouldn't prescribe. It was horrifying.

As for taking the child's opinion on board, surely it depends on the child's age? I wouldn't discuss serious medical issues with a prepubescent child. It's a parent's job to weigh up things and make these decisions.

cockblocker · 24/10/2018 23:42

Mrskeats this is mumsnet not a website against trans women.
Yes, that's correct! You're getting it!

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 23:42

I don’t think you have any clue what you are on about. In fact feminist your comment about sterility makes me doubt you have a trans child at all. Anyone going through this would know the risks.

AspieAndProud · 24/10/2018 23:44

Nobody is talking about sterilising children.

That’s the problem.

It’s happening and nobody is allowed to talk about it.

Housemum · 24/10/2018 23:45

Transgender people exist and have for many years. It is more acceptable now, if that’s the right phrase. However, at the moment there is a huge push beyond mere acceptance to making the idea of being trans seem fashionable. And I believe that the backlash from this, where confused young people are not given the right support and time to decide which path they are following, could end up making things worse for the genuine transgendered men and women.

My daughter was convinced 18 months ago that she was trans. She told me in no uncertain terms that she was a boy and if I didn’t agree with her then as soon as she was old enough she would go on T (testosterone) and have top surgery (breast reduction). She is on the autistic spectrum (very common amongst the current wave of trans teens) and I think that her thought process was along the lines of hating the changes puberty brought, and “I don’t want to be a woman therefore I must be a man”. Back then she bought clothes from the men’s section and used the gents if she went out with friends. Today we were shopping, and she didn’t even go near the men’s clothing - she bought PJs and a top from the female range, some new eyeshadows and concealer. She still wears boxers as she hates the texture of lace, which is on a lot of women’s underwear.
Sorry to ramble but my point is that there is an increasing push to self-identify and set off on a course towards transition. A more cautious approach would be to explore what brought the child to this stage.
Anorexics/bulimics have dysmorphia where they see themselves as a fat person and want to change their body. They are given help to see themselves as they are and to accept their bodies. Some will always be skinny but learn how to be healthy and skinny. Surely the dysmorphia aspect of trans feelings should be investigated more rather than just agreeing that the child is right?
Our approach was to just let our daughter be - her male name (that she still uses) is a normal enough nickname for her own name as a female anyway. We let her have male clothes. The only thing I couldn’t do was to fully endorse it by using male words - I used they/them pronouns and referred to her as my child rather than daughter. She still talks about breast reduction but then so so many girls with larger chests. She may well warrant it as she has worn a binder for the last two years so I have no idea what damage that has done (she bought it herself)

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 23:46

What is obvious is that these so called radical feminists who argue against trans rights don't actually want a debate. They just want to shout the loudest and refuse to listen to the arguments.

What on earth are you on about, Feminist4? We do want a debate, it's the anti-woman people who are refusing to debate with us. You've got that the wrong way round. If you want to debate with us, spend a bit of time here and debate. I'm quite happy to listen to well-reasoned arguments and debate them. I can't promise to agree with you, of course, but if I did it wouldn't be much of a debate.

Just in case you're unsure, shouting 'bigot' and 'transphobe' at us isn't debate, it's abuse.