Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

[ShineyNewName5032]

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

The Trans lobby is the least progressive, most conservative group ever. The rigid enforcement of gender stereotypes, the medicalisation of children etc. None of this is progressive in the least.

This, 100x.

Without gender stereotypes the mechanisms that prop trans ideology up would collapse like a dodgy deckchair.

It infuriates me that there’s some kind of notion that the Trans cult is all liberal and accepting. It’s quite a sleight of hand they have pulled off really.

Second, there is a natural truism involved in that only the most gender dysphoric of gender atypical children ever receive puberty blockers at such clinics where such research would be conducted... but OF COURSE those teens who had not been on puberty blockers were the one who had already desisted or were in the process of desisting.

That's incorrect. What interested and surprised researchers was that you couldn't predict which patients would desist. It wasn't connected to how dysphoric a child was. If it were it might encourage doctors to measure how dysphoric each patient was with an aim to only offer blockers to the worst cases. But that's not so.

Those who desist do not necessarily do so pre puberty. If they socially transition but are not medicated they may continue to be gender dysphoric for years only to reconcile with their bodies in their late teens or early twenties. Many turn out to be gay or lesbian. However once a gender dysphoric young person is on medication they all continue on a path that will sterilize them, limit or eliminate sexual function and all the other ills of becoming a lifelong medical patient. These drugs are not benign. They have multiple grave side effects.

Given what we know I cannot think that puberty blockers are justified for any child. I am very glad the NHS has a watchful waiting policy.

Does anyone know what would happen if a boy presented infront of doctor’s wearing no make up, jeans, short-ish hair, said they liked football and wanted to be a mechanic when they grew up but were adamant they ‘felt like a girl’ and ‘were born in the wrong body’ and it was making them feel suicidal, would they be given hormones?

Do trans-women who never wear make up, nail varnish, heels, dresses exist?

Of course they care about women - they are women.

However once a gender dysphoric young person is on medication they all continue on a path that will sterilize them, limit or eliminate sexual function and all the other ills of becoming a lifelong medical patient.

@Prawnofthepatriarchy do you (or anyone else) know why this is? So does no one who starts on hormones stop them? Why not?

I am so grateful for the logical, eloquent posters here who are able to elucidate the inconsistencies and the conservative values of the TRA narrative. This has given me the confidence to stand by my view (which was almost all instinct initially, dwelling as I did in a Guardian-land of general leftist bonhomie towards any apparently oppressed people). I have started to engage with the debate in real life though live in fear of my job and career being compromised by doing so. Thank you to you all.

Yes, you are describing my trans daughter

Of course they care about women - they are women.
But what about the transwonen who compete at sport at a huge advantage meaning the women can’t win due to physical differences? Is that caring about women? They are not women though are they, women are completely different physically to trans women. You can’t actually think they are the same?!

Yes, you are describing my trans daughter is that in response to my question?

If so, do you mean you gave birth to a boy who grew up and said they felt like a girl inside but still wore ‘boys’ clothes, had a ‘boys’ haircut, no ‘girls’ interestes but said ‘they felt like a girl’ (even though they can’t possibly know what this means) and were medicated because of a ‘feeling’? If so, I am literally even more confused (and concerned) than I was before.

Yes, you are describing my trans daughter is that in response to my question?

If so, do you mean you gave birth to a boy who grew up and said they felt like a girl inside but still wore ‘boys’ clothes, had a ‘boys’ haircut, no ‘girls’ interestes but said ‘they felt like a girl’ (even though they can’t possibly know what this means) and were medicated because of a ‘feeling’? If so, I am literally even more confused (and concerned) than I was before.

The thing I find most scary is that if I hadn’t been able to read the carefully (and patiently) reasoned views on here, I would likely think there was something actually bigoted about my views about the legislation changes - when actually, in reality - the whole thing is the biggest Emperor’s (feminine stereotyped) Clothes ruse ever.

The light has dramatically dawned on how socially conditioned I am as a woman to step aside in every way in order to be kind, not upset others, and on and on and on. Only it’s not on anymore, I’ve had enough.

We've made a programme about the fizzy drinks industry featuring Coca Cola in numerous scenes throughout. During production we consulted with Coca Cola Branding to ensure it fitted with their marketing strategy. But we are not promoting Coca Cola. There is no product placement whatsoever.

Give the fuck over.

Of course they care about women - they are women.

No, they're transwomen, not women. And there's no of course about it. Quite the opposite.

I don't deny that there are some transwomen who do care about women. From my observation they appear to be mainly transsexuals. But the TRAs hate women with a passion.

Look at Self ID. No one who cared about the safety of women and girls would be pressing for Self ID. The risks are blatantly obvious to all the ordinary men I've discussed this with. But men who claim to identify as women just don't care.

Look at demands that women don't discuss issues related to having a female body because TRAs don't have one.

Look at the TERF is a slur site where a few of the countless rape and death threats made by transwomen to women are collected.

And look at the Cotton Ceiling, FFS.

Why do feminists, who are mostly left wing and strongly supportive of LGB rights oppose trans ideology? Why? It's because it's essentially a men's sexual rights movement.

Like nearly every woman here, I assumed that I supported trans rights. Until I actually listened to what was being said. What was being demanded. It was their words and deeds that radicalised me.

The many aggressive TRAs come over as hyper masculine rather than feminine: as entitled and particularly nasty misogynists

Not to defend the suicide issue, but it is after the watershed for a reason. I wouldn't be comfortable showing it to a minor for a host of reasons and its not really aimed at them.

Of course they care about women - they are women.

They care about the subset of women who are, in fact, men.

Of course they care about women - they are women.

OK so if give you the benefit on that one, on this occasion, I still don't agree. Not when you consider the program is highlighting the experimentation with drugs on children and parading it as either entertainment or being informative.

Jazz Jennings is all you need to say.

The idea that anyone around Jazz gives a fuck is laughable.

Same with this.

Of course they care about women - they are women.

Nope. They are not women and they absolutely do not care about biological women. I doubt they even care about the female allies tbh, they are just useful to the cause. They only care about transwomen (subset of men) but only those that don't raise any concerns or ask questions. Anyone else is slurred and insulted with name calling such as terf or truscum. Not very caring is it.

The thing with sport that’s been bothering me is - if you genuinely suffered with gender dysphoria and the hell that apparently is, on being accepted as a woman, would you then want to draw attention to all your actual differences by doing the one thing that basically shows them in all their glory - compete against biological women, and delight in beating them?

Or might you think - wow, I’m able to live as a woman, I’ll integrate as best as I can and support the minority I believe I belong to, by payibgvthe small price of not taking part in competitive sport as my newly assumed gender? I dunno, but?

*paying the

I can't help wondering what the definitions of left-wing and right-wing are?

Where is the contradiction between being in favour of safeguarding and women's spaces and wanting a good strong social safety net?

Now the biggest barrier to her happiness is the lack of acceptance from others.

F4 I feel sad for you and your child. The issue we have with trans people here relates to predatory men and men with sissification fetishes who are threatening our safety. I know most people here feel very much for those with genuine, crippling gender dysphoria. And most of us here will have had issues at puberty or with something else relating to our sex which will have been different to what your child is experiencing but at least means we can empathise with hating your own body.

One of the saddest things for me is that no one will ever accept your child as female. That isn't me being mean, it's just reality. Some people will be polite and pretend your child is female but really humans are too good at discerning sex, for very important reasons. By pushing the narrative you can really literally be born in the wrong body, you are on one level preventing your child from accepting themselves.

Trans women will just never get the acceptance they crave. I can state that with total confidence. You know why? Because a cross-dressing fetish is as old as the hills. People with gender dysphoria are indistinguishable from those with a fetish at first glance, to be very blunt. And we don't, as women, often feel safe around people publically displaying their kinks. Do I think your child has a kink? No, I really don't. But I wouldn't know if they did or not if I met them in real life. Your child won't ever be able to disassociate from kinksters. I don't think shaking off severe dysphoria can be remotely easy but I'd be pouring all my resources into helping them do that rather than validating their confusion. Your child will never get what they want at present. And I get that. I have a disability. I want my healthy body back more than I can say. I feel desperately trapped in the 'wrong' body. But I am my body and it is what it is and really my only path to any peace or happiness is accepting it. I'll probably be working on that for the rest of my life but there you go. I'm not the only one.

So many posts since I last posted - work got in the way. I'm only up to page 3 but didn't want anyone to think that the "you'll drive your child away" comments had made me leave the discussion. Still not sure entirely how I've supposedly driven her away given that she (and she does accept the term she now) has all but given up on talk of being trans. My earlier post said that I'd supported her wearing boys' clothes and I used they/them pronouns but would not say he/him. I never made an issue of it, I just used they.
We are actually a lot closer and although I know that the elephant in the room is her own dissatisfaction with her body, and i don't know exactly what she will choose to do in the future, I am still convinced that there are not as many "real" transgender people as there are teens thinking that they might be.

I am still convinced that there are not as many "real" transgender people as there are teens thinking that they might be

completely agree.

Love your post @gendercritter