Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

[ShineyNewName5032]

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

How could I know how a transgender girl feels - and how can you?

indeed, it is simply not possible to know how another body feels. So why is this feeling accepted as truth?

Again, how can a boy know how a girl's body feels? You're stating it as a fact, so back it up please.

Here's just one of many to back it up...
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.the-scientist.com/features/are-the-brains-of-transgender-people-different-from-those-of-cisgender-people-30027/amp

What if someone claims to be trans and dresses as a woman, thinks they should be allowed to use the women's changing rooms, wants to be able to change their sex on their birth certificate, the whole nine yards, but then a brain scan shows that they are just a bog standard bloke?

is exactly this type of thinking and comparison that I deplore and find disgraceful prejudice against trans people.

Haha you still banging on f4
Never bring an argument to here.
Just same old same old blah blah blah blah

I think you mean the posters on this message board are the same old bla bla

Feminist4
If that article shows anything, it's that, statistically, there may be some small difference in a small part of the brain in transgender identified people compared to those who do not identify as transgender.

This does not answer the question of how a boy can 'feel like a girl'. He might be unhappy with his body. He might be unhappy with the expectations society places on him as a boy. But he cannot 'feel like a girl', because he is not a girl. What does it even mean to 'feel like a girl'?

Don't call my daughter a he. She is a trans woman. Your attitude is harmful and disgraceful.

Is that reply to me, Feminist4? I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, it was a general comment, which is why I said 'a boy'. That means any boy, and doesn't refer to any particular person.

WTAF are you on about you strange person? Nobody is calling your child the wrong thing (whatever you think that is). Nobody is actually calling your child anything.

That was to Feminist4

OK so my trans daughter is a girl. Yes?

it is far more harmful to reduce womanhood and girlhood to nebulous, undefinable feelings and regressive sterotypes. Far more harmful. And as a feminist I centre women and girls, females, in my thinking.

How could I know how a transgender girl feels - and how can you?
But how can a boy know how a girl feels?!

If you are saying you don’t know how it feels to be transgender how can a boy possibly know how it feels to be a girl?

@Feminist4

If you don't mind me asking, how old was your daughter when you first knew she was trans? (Apologies if you have already answered this)

I'm a bit late to this thread - but what a wonderful parent you are Housemum. How fortunate for your daughter that she is able to work through her difficulties within such a sensible and loving approach

How do I know how another woman feels - I don't judge people because of my own narrow world view.
My daughter knew something wasn't right all along, but a gradual awareness grew in her teens of exactly what it was that was wrong.

OK so my trans daughter is a girl. Yes?

How embarrassingly transparent.

Not the first time on this thread it's seemed that Feminist4 is just here for shits and giggles. They're certainly not making much of an effort to convince anyone of what are apparently their views.

How do I know how another woman feels - I don't judge people because of my own narrow world view.

Oh, so now we're all individuals and no-one can know what anyone else feels.

So tell me how a male can know they 'feel like a girl/woman' if even a girl/woman can't know how another girl/woman feels?

still waiting for your to articulate how a boy can feel like a girl. Because right now it appears that you want laws to be changed on the basis on an undefined, unarticulated feeling that a child has. @something wasn't right' really doesn't cut it.

sillyolme.wordpress.com/
^is a transactivist, although I disagree with her on some points, she is a breath of fresh air when it comes down to talking science. she does reviews of papers claiming blue brain pink brain and lays out facts, I can't find her individual paper reviews at the moment but they are out there. Please give her link a read. She is on Your side Feminist4 but like in most things in life there is always common ground.

The article you link to is pop science, it's a piece written to support an idea, cherry picking and misinterpreting the papers it's referenced.

a lot of research actual shows the difference in brains of homosexuals and the similarities of certain MtF and FtM with that of there sex. Other research cannot get past the nurture element of the brain.

here are a couple of conclusions on the actual papers that were referenced in your link.
link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10508-016-0768-5
Untreated MtFs and FtMs who have an early onset of their gender dysphoria and are sexually oriented to persons of their natal sex show a distinctive brain morphology, reflecting a brain phenotype. These phenotypes are different from those of heterosexual males or females; the differences affect the right hemisphere and cortical structures underlying body perception. The genesis of these phenotypes might be caused by atypical effects of sex hormones or their metabolites in specific cortical regions of MtFs and FtMs. These effects of hormones on the cortex suggest the hypothesis that brain differences between homosexual MtFs and FtMs and male and female controls are due to differences in the development of the cortex; this hypothesis would imply that the thinning process undergone by some regions of the cortex is timed differently in each phenotype

The review of the available data seems to support two existing hypotheses: (1) a brain-restricted intersexuality in homosexual MtFs and FtMs and (2) Blanchard’s insight on the existence of two brain phenotypes that differentiate “homosexual” and “nonhomosexual” MtFs. The studies on the effects of cross-sex hormone treatment on the brain of MtFs and FtMs consistently indicate dramatic effects on the gray and white matter after short- to medium-term treatments but the long-term effects on the brain require evaluation. Finally, the postmortem studies should be interpreted in light of these in vivo findings as well as of their underlying mechanisms

jpn.ca/vol41-issue6/41-6-395/
Results: We included 21 girls with GD, 20 male controls and 21 female controls in our study. In the absence of any group differences in performance, control girls showed significantly increased activation in frontal brain areas compared with control boys (pFWE = 0.012). Girls with GD before testosterone treatment differed significantly in frontal brain activation from the control girls (pFWE = 0.034), suggesting a masculinization of brain structures associated with visuospatial cognitive functions. After 10 months of testosterone treatment, girls with GD, similar to the control boys, showed increases in brain activation in areas implicated in mental rotation

Limitations: Since all girls with GD identified as gynephilic, their resemblance in spatial cognition with the control boys, who were also gynephilic, may have been related to their shared sexual orientation rather than their shared gender identity. We did not account for menstrual cycle phase or contraceptive use in our analyses

Conclusion: Our findings suggest atypical sexual differentiation of the brain in natal girls with GD and provide new evidence for organizational and activational effects of testosterone on visuospatial cognitive functioning

There is a thread somewhere on here were D bands?(terrible memory sorry) were discussed and explained. I shall see if I can find it.

Because they feel deep down they are in the wrong body. I didn't believe at first, like you. But experiencing my own trans daughter and her struggles, now I do.

And as for you Feminist 4 - I am one of those parents who is estranged from her trans child.

This was my child's decision - and not because we did not respect her new 'identity'. It was because we told her we had concerns about cross- sex hormones, surgery and the speed with which things were moving. She did not want to hear anything but total affirmation.

Living without my child in our life is a nightmare. I am grief stricken. But I cannot tell lies and pretend something so radical is fine and dandy when it isn't.

I would never tell a parent who supported and facilitated their child's transition that they were wrong. No matter what my own personal beliefs are.

So please shut up and stop peddling the TRA mantra that anything but total compliance will mean your trans child will disown you.

If my child hadn't heard that trope repeated to her over and over again she might still be in our lives.

the wrong body. OK, so not a girl's body then?