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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
BooEekCackle · 25/10/2018 16:58

I am watching this show and I think it is actually pretty awful. I say that as a person who doesn't want to comment on trans issues either way because I am still undecided on how I think about it.

I think it is awful because it has basically raced through the issue. 2 episodes in and Max(ine)has had parents separate, new girlfriend, moved schools, hidden his true feelings, come out at school, been to see a psychologist and is now in America. That is too much to take in during 1 hour 20 and I think it sends out a dangerous message to those who are scared and ill informed. Did I see correctly that the parents went to a Mermaids group session and came away with a referral to a clinic in America because the child was refused puberty blockers in the UK? Surely, that is a very wrong message to scared parents.

Personally as a parent I wanted to watch this. As a mother I want to understand and have empathy for children who feel this way. I also want to be informed so I can protect my own children from dangerous adults with agendas. Unfortunately this drama does nothing for anyone because it was actually very poorly done. An opportunity missed.

Sillyolme · 25/10/2018 17:11

I'm going to have to jump in to correct some serious disinformation being shared here... not your fault really... as so much of what the public sees about transsexuality ("transgender" is a larger and not always applicable group).

A bit above, my website was referenced as a "breath of fresh air" (thanks for the shout out).

Here is a link to an essay I wrote regarding that misinformation making the rounds of parents of transkids:

sillyolme.wordpress.com/2018/06/09/transphobic-propaganda-aimed-at-parents-of-transgender-kids/

One of the posters above stated a VERY misleading comment as to kids dissisting GD "at t least 70% will desist if not put on medication".... ummmm... NO!

First, the phenomena of desisting from GD largely happens BEFORE onset of puberty:

sillyolme.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/age-of-innocence/

Thus... medical intervention was never an issue as such interventions would only be considered at the onset of puberty at the earliest. Second, there is a natural truism involved in that only the most gender dysphoric of gender atypical children ever receive puberty blockers at such clinics where such research would be conducted... but OF COURSE those teens who had not been on puberty blockers were the one who had already desisted or were in the process of desisting.

Finally, I'm having trouble accepting the narrative that a transkid unilaterally decided to blow off his/her parents... As in many cases of divorce, it was always the other party's fault if we only hear one side of the story. I know that my mother tells everyone that I was the shithead... but the truth was far more complicated:

sillyolme.wordpress.com/2018/06/06/rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/

My father and I get along great... and he tells me that he is proud of me, not so my mother. (They divorced when I was a teen.) When I got married to Jeff, he proudly gave me away. My mother was at the wedding... in fact it was her brother, our Minister, who officiated... but she was absolutely beastly, saying nasty things to and about my friends... but the last straw, the thing that led me never to talk to her again, was that she approached my young foster daughter, Elizabeth, who I adopted, saying cattily to her, "Now that Candice is married to Jeff, which one will you call 'Daddy'??" She tortured me like that as a child and teenager, with snide comments about my gender atypicality, gender dysphoria, and later sexual orientation... but I was NOT going to let her use my status as a transwoman to do the same to my daughter!

Coyoacan · 25/10/2018 17:20

An Interesting critique, BooEekCackle, and almost makes me glad they put this programme on if it is making parents want to get more information about the subject.

Puberty blockers make a child sterile, cause osteoporosis and these medicines have never been tested for the purpose of blocking puberty.

There are questions about their effect on children's mental development.

For a really sad story, look at the "I am Leo" series on youtube. It is all sweetness and light but the poor thing is now a gorgeous looking 18-year-old girl with no libido whatsoever.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 17:41

Jazz Jennings is also a very sad case.

BooEekCackle · 25/10/2018 17:46

Yes, I know about puberty blockers and what they do to a developing child. That is the main issue I have with Butterfly. They didn't go into detail about what puberty blockers do. They don't only delay puberty so they have more time to think it over. They mask one problem and create a whole set of life long others. The drama just made out that the clinic was being unreasonable as a result of the dad's stance and as a result they had to leg it over to the states that night. Some of it was really unbelievable yet someone going through this with their DC may have watched it and now be in all kinds of panic.

Piss poor writing on a very delicate and important subject. There is one more episode to go. Don't blink or make a tea or you will miss his whole transition.

IFeelSorryForMillie · 25/10/2018 18:08

Hi sillyolme

I know we disagree greatly on some matters. But thank you for popping by again.

just like to say a lot of what we talk about here is UK based, were there is a lot of pre teens being affirmed as and lots of parents being emotionally blackmailed into confirming there child to be in the wrong body.

Has there been studies into the long term effects of puberty blockers on the brain development and normal healthy growth of bones?

what about jazz Jennings? who can't have the full surgery because the penis never developed enough to invert? and they will never know sexual feeling.

I'm not transphobic and if my child felt this I wouldn't allow puberty blockers, but would support them until late teens early 20 for them to make their adult choice of hormones and surgery.

if a child is on puberty blockers, for years putting off development of the body and brain, then transfer them on to cross hormones at the age that is deemed legal. (bearing in mind the child brain hasn't matured through puberty) then once on cross hormones they are then sterilised.

OldCrone · 25/10/2018 18:08

Did I see correctly that the parents went to a Mermaids group session and came away with a referral to a clinic in America because the child was refused puberty blockers in the UK? Surely, that is a very wrong message to scared parents.

At least it showed what sort of organisation Mermaids really is.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 18:14

The National Review is. very conservative US rag. Of course it is anti trans. What a surprise.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 18:16

It's interesting that throughout these boards the posters quote the right wing press almost exclusively to support their arguments.

OldCrone · 25/10/2018 18:20

What's your explanation of why the left wing press is so supportive of such a homophobic, misogynistic and regressive movement, feminist4?

Noqont · 25/10/2018 18:22

Not really. It shows what a shit shower the left has become. No critical thought, no platforming. Ironically the left these days seems more in line with the previous far right. It's certainly not progressive.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 18:22

Because they are progressive and more tolerant of the less fortunate in society. Less selfish too.

OldCrone · 25/10/2018 18:25

I'm not sure why you think reinforcement of sex-role stereotypes is progressive, fem4. Did you mean 'regressive'?

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 18:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Noqont · 25/10/2018 18:25

Lol bless you. That just ain't true. I need to add deluded to that list as well. You fall into that category (imo)

Annandale · 25/10/2018 18:26

I see many pro-trans views and indeed Butterfly as quite rightwing. The 'problem' is presented as being in the individual child, not in a brutally sexist society where amoral capitalist corporations run riot with stereotyping in order to maximise profit. The 'problem' is women not agreeing that their bodies mean nothing.

It's why i find it so strange that it is indeed right-wing media that have published articles critical of pressure to trans children. I think it's partly because they are intrinsically more suspicious of change; also because unfortunately there will be a backlash - they are happy that biology means something but may resist a return to the view that biology shouldn't define everything.

OlennasWimple · 25/10/2018 18:26

Because they are progressive and more tolerant of the less fortunate in society. Less selfish too

Unless you happen to be female / gay / jewish

LangCleg · 25/10/2018 18:28

Rufus got deleted for yawning. Le sigh.

Noqont · 25/10/2018 18:28

Unless you happen to be female / gay / jewish

Yep. This. Not the labour I once supported and loved. They can go to fuck now as far as I'm concerned.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 18:32

The Trans lobby is the least progressive, most conservative group ever. The rigid enforcement of gender stereotypes, the medicalisation of children etc. None of this is progressive in the least.

VickyEadie · 25/10/2018 18:36

The Trans lobby is the least progressive, most conservative group ever. The rigid enforcement of gender stereotypes, the medicalisation of children etc. None of this is progressive in the least.

And their supporters and advocates are the most vocally abusive of anyone even mildly dissenting with their 'trans at all costs' stance.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 18:38

Agreed vicky and they are going to be looked back on in horror.

Noqont · 25/10/2018 18:40

The trans lobby are utterly appalling. They don't give a shit about anyone elses safety and rights. They don't give a shit about women. They don't give a shit about children. And they don't give a shit about any transperson that voices their concerns. These points also apply to the labour party. Who also don't give a shit. This isn't progress and anyone who thinks otherwise is an utter bloody fool.

VickyEadie · 25/10/2018 18:42

The trans lobby are utterly appalling. They don't give a shit about anyone elses safety and rights. They don't give a shit about women. They don't give a shit about children. And they don't give a shit about any transperson that voices their concerns. These points also apply to the labour party. Who also don't give a shit. This isn't progress and anyone who thinks otherwise is an utter bloody fool.

Correct. Their utter contempt whenever safeguarding is raised is a case in point here.