Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

[ShineyNewName5032]

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

Feminist4:

MrsKcastle, I think it showed the attitude of many parents. Nobody wants their child to be transgender as it is an awful journey and they face huge amounts of abuse. People are beginning to accept transgender people, but stereotypes remain - as on this board. Many trans children feel alienatated from their own parents who refuse to accept what their child is going through. I think Butterfly reflected both types of parent in one family.

Doo you think that some (many?) parents are so worried about having a trans child that they would suppress and discourage any signs of gender non-conformity, as Max's parents did? I do hope not, but I think you may be right. I've seen in many coming out stories something along the lines of 'no matter how many pretty dresses we bought, our child kept complaining ' or 'they wouldn't play with the trucks and dinosuars, even when we got rid of all their sister's nail polish and sparkles.'

If a child is constantly told 'you can't do that (or be that or wear that) because you're an X and that is for Ys' then doesn't that prompt the child to say 'well I must be a Y then'?

Anchor I hope that some day your child will understand that you acted in their best interests and looked not just to there here and now but the future as well.

I feel for you. I feel for her too.

Because they feel deep down they are in the wrong body.

There was a transwoman posting on here a while back who said that she felt as though she was in the wrong body. She acknowledged that that was obviously not literally true, but just the best way to put into words how she felt. Does that sound like how your child felt, Feminist4?

The important thing is to not lose sight of reality. It is not literally true that anyone is born in the wrong body, and it is not possible to change sex.

and 'the wrong body' does not equate 'the body of someone of the opposite sex'.

Anchor - that is heartbreaking. I have seen tweets telling children that if their parents don’t support them they can find their new “glitter family” within the trans movement.

Dangerous grooming of vulnerable people that destroys families.

Feeling as though one is in the wrong body is a fairly normal human feeling for anyone forced into social strictures that they don’t have an affinity with, or at puberty, particularly for girls. Adult women spend their lives with their bodies being public property. As a young woman, and very thin, if I ate ice cream or chocolate in the street, some random man would feel it his place to tell me that would get fat.
People with anorexia strongly feel their body is wrong. People with injuries, scars, disabilities , may feel distress that this isn’t the body they were meant to have.
Surely helping everyone to feel comfortable with their skin, and to enjoy the diversity of human appearance, with all our perceived “flaws” , is far, far better than putting a very young child on a drug that renders them sterile, and damages their bones, solely so that they better fit some idea of femininity that they are aspiring to ? When almost all children with those feelings will do a swift about turn after puberty, I think this is a criminal, abusive and disgusting thing to do. I also wonder why so many adult men are interested in the appearance of children.

How do I know how another woman feels
Exactly, so how can a boy know how being a girl ‘feels’. In reality no one can know how anyone else feels.

My daughter knew something wasn't right
Again so, so many children and teenagers feel like this, unhappy in their body. Many would give anything to change it. Most do grow to accept it and be happy with who they are but often not for many years.
I do think it’s cruel to tell teenagers they can change sex though. It’s leading lots to go through irreversible and damaging medication as they believe it is worth sacrificing it for something that isn’t possible.

I think if you said to lots of these boys/girls, look you can take hormones that will make you grow breasts/facial hair etc but the reality is that nothing will actually turn you into a man/woman, many wouldn’t be so keen.

I think we are doing a huge disservice to these children by not keeping repeating the reality. The same if they want to be American or have a different coloured skin or be taller or have different hair they simply can’t as that’s just how they are.

I've never heard of the glitter family. I think many end up in care or on the streets tbh.

source?

I wondered why they didn't choose to show a family where the child continued to insist they were the other sex despite loving acceptance of their personality. Wouldn't that have been more convincing and got more sympathy?

Maybe I should contact the ITV to make a mini series about my (lived) experience. This was us for 4 years while dd was our trans ds. I never for one moment doubted that she felt like a boy, you can’t deny how someone feels, however, it’s simply not possible to change sex. We never fought with her, she fought us though and called us all the insults you can think of. It hurt, I think she wanted to alienate herself from us and was desperate for us to react so she could be so oppressed, but we never reacted. 4 years of patience and she desisted. Dd was 11 when all this began, in someways I see us as lucky she was young, we were able to give her the space to decide for herself while still under our roof.

In our drama we’d show the 6 year battle we’ve had for a diagnosis of autism. We and dd are 100% sure she has autism, if only it was possible to self identify as autistic based on how you feel, but no, they put in so many checks and safeguards to ensure correct diagnosis. Dd would have had a diagnosis much sooner and would have had a lot fewer mental health, school and relationship issues if she’d only had to live as someone with autism for 2 years and got two drs to agree with her.

Lots of to Housemum and Anchormum.

anchormum
You made a brave decision and hopefully your child will see that eventually.

Non

I agree that you can't deny a feeling, but you can deny that a feeling is reality.

The glitter family comment was by Rachel McKinnon , the person who recently won a women’s bicycle race. 4thwavenow.com/2017/05/14/mtof-tells-trans-kids-to-dump-moms-on-mothers-day-and-join-the-glitter-queer-family-of-adult-trans-activists/

You’ll be glad to hear that Rachel is always there to listen to your gender non conforming children.

OldCrone I would never be so naive as to believe I have the knowledge to know how to deal with this situation.

I believe every case would be different and could not be given a "one fits all" response. In the case of the show and the family story it is telling, I think honestly I would have probably acted similarly to the father to begin with ( minus the slapping) and then done what the mother did by trying to understand more about why my child is mutilating himself and try to prevent this from happening. As I love my child unconditionally but would definitely not understand it, so it would be terribly difficult.

I don't think anyone can say what you would do unless you have to walked in them shoes, or sorry you can say what you think you would do but the reality could be very different if the situation arose.

That Rachel glitter thing is obnoxious

I've just started talking to my 8yo DD about puberty and periods. She is upset that she is starting to develop breast buds and horrified at the idea of having blood coming out of her vagina every month. If someone popped up now and offered her something so that she didn't need to go through it all, I have no doubt that she would decide that was what she wanted to do

Meanwhile I feel that I am an excellent singer and remain baffled why I don't have a recording contract already because by any objective standard I am a terrible singer but y'know, self ID means I must be what I feel

AnchorMum, I would have done exactly the same in your shoes. I couldn't possibly support medical transition for a child of mine.

We know that at least 70% will desist if not put on medication so your decision was the wisest course. As your child matures, they will know you did everything in your power to protect them.

I hope, as you presumably do too that they don't change their mind but there's a good chance they will as all this is being done to people who are still very immature.

I've just started talking to my 8yo DD about puberty and periods. She is upset that she is starting to develop breast buds and horrified at the idea of having blood coming out of her vagina every month. If someone popped up now and offered her something so that she didn't need to go through it all, I have no doubt that she would decide that was what she wanted to do

My niece didn't start menstruating until she was almost 17. Her GP's response each of the times her mother took her there about this was indifference - 'nothing to worry about', he said. Niece wasn't the least bothered, mostly because the thought of menstruation disgusted her.

When she sustained her third stress fracture of the foot, her parents took her to a private specialist (GP grudgingly agreed to refer) who sent her for a bone density scan - it revealed perilously low density, the result of her failure to enter full puberty.

She was placed on a special diet, etc and after a few months, put on enough weight to begin her periods. She was lucky - if it had gone on longer, she might have been damaged permanently.

I report all this because this was what happened to a child whose puberty didn't happen properly...

Exactly Fem.

I can see why parents agree with a child’s feelings of being transgender, especially when coupled with self harm and suicide threats. CAMHS advice is too not panic or shout at the child when either occur. This is to stop blame or it being a tool for manipulation. It’s very hard to act this way in the moment it’s happening, and I think feels very counterintuitive as it feels like you’re condoning their actions. As a parent you just want your child to be happy and to stop hurting themselves. When your family is in turmoil and you’re given advice from the professionals that takes time to see results you can see why some parents kickback and take the affirmative action.

Having been through the self harm and suicide attempts with dd, I think Butterfly is highly irresponsible in its portrayal without explanation . It’s used as manipulation by Max, though due to his age he probably doesn’t understand fully the implications of his actions or the affect they have on his parents.

I think for me, it's chilling how young the process starts and how much power and influence adults have.

So at four Susie Green says in an interview that she was "horrified" when watching a Disney Princess film that he said he felt like a girl.

At four my own son dressed in Disney costumes and haf a pink Disney room. I wasn't horrified.

I'd pick him up from after school club and he'd be wearing a different dress. Nobody batted an eyelid. If the school had had concerns and said " we think your son feels like a girl" I would have said don't be ridiculous - this is the opposite of a tom boy (as I was).

But what if I had been horrified and started researching the topic.
I understand Green waited and the story is well documented - but what makes somebody horrified when their child is 4? Why do people exploit that?

That should read: when Susie's son was 4.

the wrong body' does not equate 'the body of someone of the opposite sex'

This ^^
Not feeling like a boy =/= feeling like a girl.

Now the biggest barrier to her happiness is the lack of acceptance from others

What kind of acceptance is necessary, though? I treat other people as human beings. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until I know them better. Most people are the same.