What is ‘cis privilege’?

[MissSusanSays]

I’ve seen quite a few of the posters wo come on to make the pro-self id argument rage about ‘cis privilege’

Could one of them actually explain what it is? Because I struggle to see how women, who are oppressed by their sex and forced into gender norms, abused, paid less, over looked for promotions, given shoddy maternity care, suffer post natal depression in silence, suffer miscarriages, fight through the shame and difficulty on infertility, endometriosis, breast cancer, rape, sexual assault, menopause, hysterectomy, groping, belittling etc are privileged.

If someone who believes in ‘cis privilege’ can point out to me what privileged women have then I’d really, really like to know.

Or is it just another way to shame women into not talking about the tragic and terrifying things that happen to them because of the way their bodies function?

Expecting people to have sex with you is classic male entitlement and it totally rubbishes their claims to be women. You never hear women complaining about this stuff.

I would say women don't complain about this stuff as it is a lot easier for a woman to find a male partner than a trans woman.

*I would say women don't complain about this stuff as it is a lot easier for a woman to find a male partner than a trans woman.

Still not 'privilege'.

I dunno Vicky, being able to find a normal, kind and respectful life partner with ease seems like a pretty big privilege to me over someone who can't.

Deary me. The massive scope of the dating industry would suggest that quite a lot of people are unable to find 'normal kind and respectful life partners with ease'. You're now talking about bring lucky in love. This is not 'privilege'.

I feel deeply for women who can't have children. That is irrelevant to the anti trans debate.

Wow! So you use infertile women to show that transwomen have the same experiences and then dismiss us as soon as we tell you how shitty and painful that is.

And you’re accusing us of being hateful.

It is relevant to the debate because trans allies keep banging on about how transwomen are just like us. How being trans is just like being an infertile woman. It is bullshit. How fucking dare you.

You feel nothing for women. Apparently our problem aren’t special enough for you.

How likely to be rejected by a male partner for being a woman? Or for being a trans woman?

I spent my first year at uni having a huge crush on a male friend who was gay. I was rejected obviously-because I was a woman. Was he being a 'genital fetishist' for not considering a relationship with me?

being able to find a normal, kind and respectful life partner with ease seems like a pretty big privilege to me over someone who can't.

Not only is this not a c-s privilege, but as my esteemed colleague Floral Bunting says:

Deary me. The massive scope of the dating industry would suggest that quite a lot of people are unable to find 'normal kind and respectful life partners with ease'. You're now talking about being lucky in love. This is not 'privilege'.

If you think women can find a normal, kind and respectful life partner with ease you can't have a lot of life experience. Makes me wonder if you're actually a woman at all.

If you're male bodied but demand people accept you as female you're bound to have problems because most people are straightforwardly gay or straight and your situation just doesn't compute. There's a transsexual on Twitter who talks about how the men who have sex with her are bisexual, because the truth is that she's male however much they insist they don't sleep with men.

Transgender people are bound to have limited sexual appeal. For example, I'm het. I'm only interested in big, cheerful men who present as male. I would not consider either a transman or a transwoman as a sexual partner, the first because she's the wrong sex and the second because I'm not attracted to men who present as women.

Plus I'm only interested in men who are totally at ease in their own skin. Anyone who's conflicted about sex or their body, or who's had cosmetic surgery, turns me right off.

It's like any major body mod. I wouldn't be interested in someone heavily tattooed either.

If you make a decision that will limit your dating pool, don't complain when your dating pool is limited.

People not wanting to have sex with you isn't oppression or as human rights violation.

How likely to be rejected by a male partner for being a woman? Or for being a trans woman?

Increasing numbers of transwomen don't want a male partner at all, they want a female one. Indeed, some of them specifically want a lesbian one and proclaim those lesbians who refuse to consider them 'transphobic'.

How does that fit within your "c-s privilege" narrative?

I dunno Vicky, being able to find a normal, kind and respectful life partner with ease seems like a pretty big privilege to me over someone who can't.

It's childish, uninformed nonsense.

Tell that to the two women who are killed by their male partners.

*a week

Tell that to the two women who are killed by their male partners.

...every single week.

I disagree.

Let's imagine a small town of 1000 single adults (500 male and 500 female)

The straight people are likely to have about 450 straight partners to choose from.

The gay people have about 40 potential gay partners to choose from.

And the trans people will have about 10 other people (trans or pansexuals) to choose from.

Of course the straight people take it for granted there are plenty of people local to them willing to have a date and don't consider it a privilege.

Jezebelz

You said being able to find a normal, kind and respectful life partner with ease seems like a pretty big privilege to me over someone who can't.

The notion that all women can 'find a normal (sic - wtf do you mean by that?), kind and respectful life partner with ease...' is quite a staggering over-generalisation borne of no relevant data - don't you think?

People who are looking for someone to share walks on the beach are going to have lots of people to choose from.

People who are looking for someone to share their love and passion of the basket weaving methods from the Middle Ages will have fewer people to choose from.

Jezebelz

Stop it. You just trolling now. No one has the right to a sexual partner.

No one.

Yes, the large increase in recent years among men who say they identify as women has been mostly made up of heterosexual men.

Sexual orientation is pretty fixed regardless of transition, although you do get het men who want to have sex with men while they present en femme as part of
their AGP.

It's estimated that two thirds of transwomen are attracted to women. And, sadly for lesbians, a lot of these plonkers identify as lesbians. It's a real problem for lesbian groups, especially among the young. Ace video from Magdalen Berns here:

There was a thread on Reddit a couple of years ago from a young lesbian who had been violently assaulted by a transwoman who had been part of her friendship group. She needed medical treatment and she went to the police. She was the person ostracized by her friends who all said the transwoman was the vulnerable one and the victim. Poor kid was distraught. It's straight up madness and gaslighting.

What I'm getting from this thread now is that Jezebelz has decided that discussing the way 'cis privilege' has been used is too hard, so has decided to have a discussion about all the ways in which trans people may feel bad, without reference to why they might feel that way, and use these random things to show that women have a better time of it in general, and should feel bad.

If you are a man who is attracted to women, but demand that any woman who sleeps with you calls herself a lesbian, your dating pool is going to shrink to next to nothing.

But that is not an account of you being trans...

When we've arrived at sexual entitlement, I think we all know where we stand.

It's emotional blackmail telling you to be nice to others.

It's no surprise that a lot of transactivists are incels.

Let's say I agree with the ideas about sexual privilege, how would we make things more equal in society wrt sexual partners?

Maybe those with privilege could make themselves available in an idk, first come first served or some kind of rotation basis to get fucked by the poor oppressed trans & pans cause that sounds very much like the arguments put forward by MRAs & Incels and I pretty much feel like I'm being fucked every which way by TRAs already when it come to my rights as a female...

So it’s about sex , ie biology, after all? Do some of you have “pretty” priveldge because you are born pretty? And perhaps some have good hair priveldge? Althetic body priveledge? And the female specific Not too brainy priveldge?

You're right, FloralBunting. Jezebelz seems unable or unwilling to accept the definition of privilege when we're talking about class analysis.

I always think comparing Barack Obama to a white homeless man illustrates the principle well for people who haven't encountered the concept before. But in this case it seems to have been entirely misunderstood.