What is ‘cis privilege’?

[MissSusanSays]

I’ve seen quite a few of the posters wo come on to make the pro-self id argument rage about ‘cis privilege’

Could one of them actually explain what it is? Because I struggle to see how women, who are oppressed by their sex and forced into gender norms, abused, paid less, over looked for promotions, given shoddy maternity care, suffer post natal depression in silence, suffer miscarriages, fight through the shame and difficulty on infertility, endometriosis, breast cancer, rape, sexual assault, menopause, hysterectomy, groping, belittling etc are privileged.

If someone who believes in ‘cis privilege’ can point out to me what privileged women have then I’d really, really like to know.

Or is it just another way to shame women into not talking about the tragic and terrifying things that happen to them because of the way their bodies function?

Oh do me a favour.
Way to deliberately miss the point.

Cross dressing male rapists are women now.
I did not make that decision single handedly myself.
If I had that much power as an "opressor" I would probably not have gone with that one.

No, you are suggesting that trans women are cross dressing make rapists. Not acceptable.

No, you are suggesting that trans women are cross dressing make rapists. Not acceptable.

She didn't say that at all. On the basis of this thread alone you really need to work on your reading comprehension.

It wasn't feminists idea for 'trans' to be extended from just meaning people with gender dysphoria to include cross dressers.
There needs to be a return to the clear distinction - that transwomen are only those (like 4's DC, presumably) who can be diagnosed as dysphoric. Including cross dressers and, to quote from a Stonewall document, 'Anyone who chooses, for whatever reason, to self-identify as transgender' is bad for the rights of both women and people of either sex with dysphoria.

No, you are categorising transgender women as the above, by even mentioning them in the same text.

Please everyone. Stop engaging. Just report. This person clearly isn't well.

No, you are categorising transgender women as the above, by even mentioning them in the same text.

No. It's Stonewall etc who've done that. Are you saying you disagree with their definitions? If so, good!

Of course, but when it's framed in terms of "you're ciswomen, we're transwomen, and all of us are women", that discussion is a non-starter for me.

This.

How very very attractive for your beta-male to find a way to use gender ideology to gain advantage, not only can you gain access to all women only spaces by uttering some magic words you can also claim to be more opressed and use it to unleash all your pent up misogyny in a frenzy that is pandered to by the entire political class.

Exactly this.

How very very attractive for your beta-male to find a way to use gender ideology to gain advantage, not only can you gain access to all women only spaces by uttering some magic words you can also claim to be more opressed and use it to unleash all your pent up misogyny in a frenzy that is pandered to by the entire political class.

Totally.

Unsuccessful, social inept men who feel entitled to women and are furious with their lot absolutely flock to this movement. Just look at all the transactivists. Every last one.

My understanding of 'cis-privilege' includes exactly this definition. The privilege to have the anatomy to grow a child, something many trans women yearn for.

Which is why it's such a nonsense term. You could therefore argue that being able to have an abortion is a privilege (something I have actually seen more than one TRA argue as a reason for why they were anti abortion). Males simply don't have that reproductive role. They are, all being well, able to father children. It's not a matter of "privilege".

This is the same kind of stigmatidm gay people differed 40 years ago.

I hear this a lot but can’t see how this is remotely true. How is the trans struggle to colonise women’s spaces and take away women’s single sex provision remotely like the gay struggle to be able to love and marry who they want to and have greater societal acceptance.

Gay people’s right to get married and love who ever they please is asked for to create equality with the rights straight people already enjoyed. They weren’t asking everyone in the whole world to reclassify and re-identify themselves or give up any rights to do this.

And if the trans struggle was just the same- let me be who I am and present as I want- then I cannot see many people (especially feminists who campaigned for gay rights) having an issue with this.

But what the most vocal parts of the trans community are saying is that women have a ‘privilege’ that is unfair to them (having a female body and being subject to female socialisation) and that the only fair way to address this is to force women (a vulnerable group) to give up their single sex spaces and become the more disadvantaged group to make way for transwomen.

What do women get out of this? Because we lose our single sex protections. Once ‘woman’ means anyone who identifies as a woman where are the safe spaces? Once female biology becomes a ‘privilege’ that we should be grateful for where will the open discourse be?

Women have only just started to talk about their biology openly. We’ve only just started to claim what is ours as ours and not the property of men. Don’t we deserve safe spaces to discuss this openly.

I cannot envisage a scenario where anyone would mock and dismiss an infertile woman for having exactly the same feelings.

Stop conflating male people with serious psychological issues with infertile women. It's deeply offensive.

My understanding of 'cis-privilege' includes exactly this definition. The privilege to have the anatomy to grow a child, something many trans women yearn for.

Men have always envied our power to create life. It's one of the foundation stones of misogyny and its not just men who identify as women.

That would mean that everyone in the world is privileged over someone else. By dint of the fact they have, a better car, house, dress, ring, boyfriend, set of teeth!

Indeed. It's ridiculous to use the concept of privilege like this. Privilege is only valuable for class analysis. Not at the individual level.

Ereshkigal again it goes back to being oblivious of the privilege, like saying 'I was born with white skin, it's just the way I am, it's not a privilege'.

What's not on is TRAs deciding that the crap biological women go through by virtue of being born biologically female, socialised in a society where women get the worse deal, women are affected by the features if their biological sex etc is some sort of exclusive club of "privilege" that they're craving to be a part of.
Only someone born male and socialised male would have the arrogance to mansplain the female experience.

It's straight out of the MRA playbook. Surprising, I know.

Ereshkigal again it goes back to being oblivious of the privilege, like saying 'I was born with white skin, it's just the way I am, it's not a privilege'.

It's "I wish I was a woman but I'm not-you are a woman so you have privilege over me". Such nonsense.

Black people don't (generally) wish to be white. They wish for an end to structural inequality. There's your difference.

Germaine Bunbury coined an expression I feel is very apposite here: "When TRAs show you who they are by accusing you of the very things they seek to do, believe them."

it goes back to being oblivious of the privilege, like saying 'I was born with white skin, it's just the way I am, it's not a privilege'.

It's more akin to saying "I was born with white skin but I identify as black. All you other black people don't know how good you have it! Everyone sees you as black and treats you that way. I would love to be racially abused but it's not going to happen because people see me as white. Not only that, but you COMPLAIN about being racially abused. You have such privilege that I will never have. So can you please stop talking about racism because as a self-identifying black person I will never experience that and there are more important things as black people that we need to concentrate on."

It's "I wish I was a woman but I'm not-you are a woman so you have privilege over me". Such nonsense.

It's not really that. It's simply acknowledging there are certain privileges about not being transgender that people who are not transgender take for granted.

The overarching one is being accepted by society and not considered to be mentally unwell, threatening or strange just for being who you are.