What is ‘cis privilege’?

[MissSusanSays]

I’ve seen quite a few of the posters wo come on to make the pro-self id argument rage about ‘cis privilege’

Could one of them actually explain what it is? Because I struggle to see how women, who are oppressed by their sex and forced into gender norms, abused, paid less, over looked for promotions, given shoddy maternity care, suffer post natal depression in silence, suffer miscarriages, fight through the shame and difficulty on infertility, endometriosis, breast cancer, rape, sexual assault, menopause, hysterectomy, groping, belittling etc are privileged.

If someone who believes in ‘cis privilege’ can point out to me what privileged women have then I’d really, really like to know.

Or is it just another way to shame women into not talking about the tragic and terrifying things that happen to them because of the way their bodies function?

Your last sentence pretty much nails it.

There is no such thing as 'cis' privilege. I loathe that word, I am a woman, a female. No need for further qualifiers. My opinion about this cis privilege is that from a view of a man, we are privileged - we get male attention (TW may not, or not get female attention either), we have things they don't have, periods, uteruses, etc; we are free to wear trousers, skirts, makeup, no makeup - from the outside looking in, being a woman looks better perhaps. Also, a man transitioning to a woman, will experience an appearance of a loss of privilege, women are treated worse. That case in the US of the transexual who now pays more for car insurance - cue massive uproar because it is trans discrimination. No, actually it is sex discrimination that he experienced. So when they have this idea of how good a woman gets it, and they don't get treated that way, that is how we are privileged and they are not.
That's my twopennyworth anyway.

The privilege is that we don’t have a mismatch of our gender and sex. Where that leaves you if like me you don’t think gender is anything other than a social construct, I don’t know.

I get annoyed with all the TRA stuff, but I think we should be consistent here. White privilege, male privilege are all examples where we recognise that if we are white, or male, our lives are on balance a little easier. If someone does have gender dysphoria, equally, all things being considered, that makes their life a little more difficult.

Cis (and I really am not a fan of that term) women and men have the privelege of not having the emotional turmoil of questioning their gender identity, discrimination and bad treatment from society if they try to present in ways traditionally associated with the opposite sex.

The fact that women are disadvantaged compared to men has nothing to do with whether or not they have cis privelege. That sounds similar to arguing that women can't be disadvantaged because white women have it so much better in many ways than black men. Have a read about intersectionality.

I'm as gender critical as anyone and I think that 'cis privelege' is very much used as a tool to shut down women who raise valid concerns, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

It's a term which is used to shut women down.

I have MH problems. I have had MH problems for over 20 years now. I don't go round shouting at others saying that they have 'neurotypical privilege'.

It's a scientific term which has been co-opted and abused to the Nth degree. I would have had some sympathy with those using it genuinely, but since being told repeatedly that miscarriage, abortion and menstruation are all 'cis privilege' I'm afraid my well has run dry.

The concept of cis privilege doesn't even warrant serious scrutiny - unless you subscribe to the idea that women ('cis women') are a subgroup of a category called women.

I agree with you entirely. Absolute bullshit.

"Cis (and I really am not a fan of that term) women and men have the privilege of not having the emotional turmoil of questioning their gender identity, discrimination and bad treatment from society if they try to present in ways traditionally associated with the opposite sex."

Except I can think of few people who have not struggled with identity, expected social or sex roles, or feelings of discomfort in their lives. Struggle and suffering are part of the human condition.

It's used by privileged white men so they can claim to be the most oppressed minority in the world.

that makes their life a little more difficult

More difficult than?

Being socialised to be ‘nice’, even at the negative affect on a girl/woman’s wellbeing.
Being sexually harassed in your school uniform, because you’re a GIRL.
More likely to be sexually abused by MEN because you’re a FEMALE child.
More likely to be raped, because you’re female.
More likely to be physically assaulted by men, because you can’t fight back, because you’re female.
Being judged on your looks throughout your formative years until you ‘disappear’, when you become middle aged, because you’re a woman.
Growing up learning to protect yourself from predatory men because you’re female.
Learning from very early in that if you’re raped or sexually assaulted you will be judged on what you were wearing, drinking, walking, etc.
Having your sex life destroyed and living in a lifetime of discomfort/pain because a patriarchal religion things women need fgm.
Being married off as a little girl, to men many years older than you.
Being trafficked for sex.
Having to be the sex that either carries an unwanted child or go through an abortion, while the man can walk away.
Being PREVENTED from having an abortion and being treated like a criminal, if you do, because you live in NI.

Finally being told that being a woman is nothing more than a ‘feeling’ and you have ‘cis privilege’, so move over and let men who want to pretend to be women into your safe female spaces or you’re a bigot. So what if you’ve been abused, terrorised, raped, beaten half to death, trans identifying men’s rights to validation and their hurt feelings are more important. Wise up!

Cis privilege is another borrowed concept. It's based on idea like white privilege, or male privilege, and relies on an individual accepting that trans people are on the bottom of the oppression pyramid, below women.

So, a white person will not even register their 'higher' status because they are not judged for their skin colour in any detrimental way, whereas a black person will deal with unspoken and overt prejudice throughout their day to day lives - based on everything from perhaps their name on a form or the way they sound on the phone, to people feeling permitted to touch their hair or the obvious abuse recently seen on the aeroplane video.

White people face none of that, and so operate under 'white privilege', and it's a useful thing to remember so you don't act like an ignorant wotsit in conversation.

Cis privilege therefore is predicated on the idea that a male bodied transperson, presenting in a feminine way, will face a myriad of disadvantages and prejudices throughout the day that a woman wouldn't notice. This actually seems like a reasonable idea at first - the transperson will talk about being stared at, name called, fearing for their physical safety, judged for their appearance etc.

But my daughter came home last night from town after a night out with friends, upset because she had been cancelled in her pretty outfit, having been warned off using the bus because a girl had been raped the day before in the local area.

So none of the things which women apparently don't experience are solely experienced by the transperson, and actually, what they mean boils down to the fact that they don't pass.

Essentially 'Cis privilege' is an admission that most male bodied trans feminine presenting people haven't the first clue what it is like to actually be a woman.

Cancelled= catcalled

It doesn't exist. I would say it is supposed to describe the assumed privilege of not having dysphoria. However many women do have other mental health disorders, and many male-bodied trans people don't seem to have any kind of bodily dysphoria at all, though a number do seem to have notable personality disorders.

If Rachel Doležal had claimed black people had 'black privilege' (I don't suppose she actually was idiotic enough to do that!), then that would be analogous.

Totally agree with PositivelyPERF

I have no problem acknowledging that trans people suffer hardships.

What is an issue is when the systematic oppression of women is framed as a privilege. If you look at where the ‘cis privilege’ argument is used it is very often in response to women talking about their biological issues.

I see it like if you are a straight, white male you have all the privilege and if not you have to accept some people have privilege over you and you have privilege over some people. It's not a competition who has the shittest time.

I think there are many difficult things about being transgender that make these individuals face unique struggles that are not faced by people who are cisgender.

There are of course many difficult things about being a woman too.

I hate the term and what it intends to communicate. I do think there is a valid argument to be made that it is easy to overlook and/or not appreciate the internal and external struggles that often come with gender dysphoria and that those without the condition can be unaware of how some simple, taken for granted aspects of life can be hugely problematic.

There’s no need to use that slur, ‘cisgender’. It’s extremely offensive. Trans people will obviously have different struggles from the sex of the people they want to be. That’s why they can never change sex. It’s just not possible.

‘Cis privilege’ relies in the assumptions that all ‘cis’ women experience no discomfort with the sexist expectations embedded in the female gender role.

I have yet to meet a woman over the age of 12, who has not suffered with the pressures put on women because we are women. Be that pressures regarding interests, preferences, appearance or obligations.

It's a made up term.

Cis is a nonsense term when applied to humans, really only those who are female humans.

Privilege is not. Watch the latest Dr Who to understand privilege.

I see it similar to straight privilege - if you take a straight woman and a gay woman, they both face difficulties for being women but the gay woman may face extra prejudice for being gay.

If you take a woman and a trans woman, they will share some struggles (risk of assault etc) the trans woman won't have the biological struggles women face but will have to deal with the extra prejudice of being trans.

‘Cis privilege’ relies in the assumptions that all ‘cis’ women experience no discomfort with the sexist expectations embedded in the female gender role.

This. For women 'cis' privilege is the privilege to be expected to wear high heels and make up and to be cat-called and to be mansplained at, apparently.

What hardships do trans people suffer though?

I can't understand this.

GRA acts are implemented in a lot of countries.