What is ‘cis privilege’?

[MissSusanSays]

I’ve seen quite a few of the posters wo come on to make the pro-self id argument rage about ‘cis privilege’

Could one of them actually explain what it is? Because I struggle to see how women, who are oppressed by their sex and forced into gender norms, abused, paid less, over looked for promotions, given shoddy maternity care, suffer post natal depression in silence, suffer miscarriages, fight through the shame and difficulty on infertility, endometriosis, breast cancer, rape, sexual assault, menopause, hysterectomy, groping, belittling etc are privileged.

If someone who believes in ‘cis privilege’ can point out to me what privileged women have then I’d really, really like to know.

Or is it just another way to shame women into not talking about the tragic and terrifying things that happen to them because of the way their bodies function?

Hmmm I'm not convinced trans women should feel they have to be apologetic and meek on account of being transgender.

I am all for women being bolshy and outspoken and if a trans woman behaves that way then good for her. I would see this as asserting personality rather than male privilege.

Jezebelz, I don't think you're understanding the concept here. No one expects trans feminine people to be 'meek'. But you're the one saying they don't benefit from male privilege and that when they identify as female they lose the male privilege.

You've been given some concrete examples of how male privilege doesn't just disappear. You seem to think that calling it a 'woman being assertive' means it doesn't exist.

Yes; if a transwoman wants to talk about 'cis privilege', it should be in relation to men.

This is it for me really. It seems clear to me that what transwomen are complaining about is male violence against them and male attitudes towards them. But the people they are actually blaming are women.

We can all acknowledge white, male privilege. And how toxic it can be.

My main questions are:

Is it still more of an advantage than a disadvantage to be born a woman?

Are those disadvantages structural within society?

Does the advantage of being born white or able bodied or straight protect you from the structural inequalities of being female? Or are all females vulnerable to exploitation and abuse because of the nature of society and male socialisation (obviously other attributes adding to vulnerabilities in different ways)?

Finally, are transwomen disadvantaged, not because of what women have and they have not, but because patriarchal society is unable to change it’s stance on gender norms and widen the bandwidth of what it means to be male?

Sorry, typed too fast, meant to say:

Is it still more of a disadvantage than an advantage to be born female.

A trans woman is marginalised and victimised by society more than most women are.

Source?

The very epitome of male privilege is going to Eton or joining the Freemasons, neither would accept a trans woman.

Eton ...true, it accepts 13yo boys and has indicated that a transitioner could be allowed to stay if that was the best thing for that individual

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/nov/11/eton-head-young-men-more-gender-intelligent

The Freemasons allows masons who transition to TW or 'non binary' to remain, I believe (Edward Lord...)

On the channel 4 trans programme I saw trans people being shouted down by women. It is a brave trans person who sticks their head above the parapet.

FloralBunting if we're talking about biology then sure, trans women don't have periods and childbearing to deal with so could be considered privileged.

On the other hand, I consider it to be a huge privilege to have the anatomy to grow another human inside me and I feel sorry for any woman who wishes to have their own kids but can't, including trans women.

I think that men physically abuse trans women. But women are currently hounding them with verbal abuse.

Feminist4

Did you see the transwoman successfully prosecuted for punching a 60 year old feminist outside a women’s meeting? Do you think that transwoman was brave? What about the TRA’s that issued a bomb threat to another women’s meeting? What about Karen White, the transwoman who raped an autistic teen and then sexually assaulted women in prison, is he brave?

Feminist4

Are you talking about the meeting where trans people wore balaclavas and tried to stop women entering a meeting?

Jezebelz

So the fertility struggles of a female are being compared to transwomen who wish they could give birth? Wow.

They are angry and desperate. Most trans women aren’t violent. Women can be violent too

Jezebelz, whilst I appreciate the elasticity of the English language in many ways, it's not going to help to use every definition of of a word interchangeably if we're going to communicate with each other.

Privilege has a number of different meanings. Whilst I agree that on a personal level, child bearing feels like a privilege, particularly in comparison to a woman who is infertile and heartbroken, that is not the definition of the term being used here.

Perhaps it would help you if you thought of it as 'Structural advantage'?

‘Structural advantage’ that really seems to be grasping at straws.

They are angry and desperate

In other words, ‘ she made me do it! ‘

How pathetic

Feminist4, just to be kind and save you expending any further energy trying to get me to respond to you, I shall let you know that I am using an inner 'block user' mechanism and ignoring everything you post. Go well, but don't try and engage me again. Thanks everso.

A trans woman is marginalised and victimised by society more than most women are.
I struggle with that statement when I think of a middle-aged autogynephile who decides to go the whole hog and starts presenting as a woman 24/7. He carries on in his well-paid job, the wife doesn't leave him, and everyone says how brave he is.

Feminist4

Grasping at straws? 🤦🏽‍♀️ From the ‘feminist’ who just excused Male violence and RAPE, with ‘ they’re angry and desperate’. What a disgusting thing to do.

The BBC routinely showcase biological males, as in transwomen alongside men, to discuss what is best for women's rights and even what language women should use to describe themselves without women being represented.

It is a rare occurrence that the BBC have actual women on to talk about women's rights without a transwoman shouting over her.

Transwomen are in the eyes on the BBC the beholders of all knowledge of womanhood.

The LP recently had three male (transgender) "women's officers" which is vastly over representative of the general population. Amnesty may I remind you had Shon "enjoy ur erasure" Faye recently presenting their woman of the year award. No one buys the "most opressed" narrative. No one at all. Because it's a lie. TW are time over time usurping women.

Seems appropriate

Feminist 4

I’m going to ask this again, specifically

What about Karen White, the transwoman who raped an autistic teen and then sexually assaulted women in prison, is he brave?

Yes Floralbunting, I’m not surprised you are blocking me. Women with your anti GRA views want to debate this, but only when they hear their own point of view. It’s very hippocritical to want debate and then block.

No Karen White is a violent criminal. There are violent women too- like Rose West. We don’t judge all women as being like Rose West.

Feminist4

You aren’t debating. You pretty much keep saying the same thing and you have a poor grasp of the specific terms we are using, which makes conversation with you frustrating and time consuming. Your rape apologist comment might just have been the final straw though. Gross.