M&S launches porn star martini in a can

[amandadecabernet]

Keeping it classy, M&S.

Anyone use the M&S live chat successfully? I've waited to live chat and before anyone answered they ended the chat saying it's not available.
www.marksandspencer.com/MSContactUsCmd?storeId=10151&langId=-24&catalogId=10051&categoryId=282501&byEmail=8

Well this has been an interesting thread - it's been lovely to see all the new visitors to FWR

From comments like this You (FWR, not you specifically) dragged your hate the fucking trans stuff all over every mumsnet board, linking to this board as some sort of fountain of knowledge, and now you're surprised people come here with a different opinion?

I can't help wondering if the success of the awareness raising of the GRA consultation has mean that some believe that the women on FWR need some silencing re-education

I didn't say porn was hilarious.I said ordering cocktails with a sexy name isn't the same as being groped which someone else said, I said ordering a cocktail with a sexy name when on a night out with your mates is a bit of a laugh not designed to mock and put women down.
Not that porn is hilarious.

‘Sexy name’... I don’t find ‘porn’ hilarious or sexy. I find it horrific. My friends body was fucking ravaged by it. Her injuries would make you cry into your sexy pornstar cocktail.

I said ordering a cocktail with a sexy name when on a night out with your mates is a bit of a laugh not designed to mock and put women down

Are you sure about that? What's do men usually order for themselves?

You don't ban an entire industry because there is exploitation and abuse. You regulate and control it and punish anyone caught commiting crimes.

There is nothing inherently wrong with filming people having sex.

Agree OP
I think it's a bloody disgrace.
Porn is the exploitation of women. Of course this is a feminist issue.

The name 'pornstar' is not fun, but the drink is clearly supposed to be.
In this context the word pornstar is being equated with fun and aimed at young women. The use of the word 'star' in this context is very glamorous. Our acquiescence of terms like this in to our language actually does have a huge effect. It normalises the idea that 'pornstar' is fun, that porn is ok, that our girls can accept porn culture. It isn't edgy or cool to like or accept porn, it is exploitation.
I'll write a letter. They'll file it in the pile of letters to ignore from middle aged prudes, but they might think twice about such a shifty brand name next time. And all of you with daughters who don't think this is an issue, I'll do it anyway and you're welcome.

The comment said sexy names of cocktails - it wasn't referring to porn star one in particular.
It said cocktail names in general designed to put women down.

As in
Sex on The Beach
and another one I remember from cocktail drinking nights out of yore was a Slow Comfortable Screw.

insert other sexy name cocktails, I'm sure there's more. Not everyone sees them as putting women down or the same as being groped. Buying or ordering a cocktail not the same as being groped.

There is nothing inherently wrong with filming people having sex

So you'd be happy for your daughter / mother to be a "porn star"?

There is nothing inherently wrong with filming people having sex

Perhaps not - in a vacuum.
When we live in one, I'll revisit my thoughts on it.

You don't ban an entire industry because there is exploitation and abuse. You regulate and control it and punish anyone caught commiting crimes.

Agree, make anyone caught committing crimes accountable for their actions and punished.

@itsallgoingtobefine

If that's what they want to do. Fine by me.
It's not illegal and I'm not morally against it. People should be free to choose what they want to do.

I saw that clip of the poem actress who'd been assaulted in a violent scene
Whilst that's shit, she's not been trafficked she's entered the porn industry of her own free will so my sympathy is limited.

You don't put your head in the lions mouth then be surprised when it bites.

Don't wanna do a violent porn scene? Don't enter the industry.

I also don't think because I'm drinking or ordering a Porn Star Martini, I'm going to be suddenly looked at like a porn star and therefore an object and therefore raped

What do you think when buying a drink called "Porn Star Martini"?

Nothing exists in a vacuum- so what is the point of using that particular name? I can't see any other than some ridiculous idea that it's cool and edgy.

And all of you with daughters who don't think this is an issue, I'll do it anyway and you're welcome

I agree with every word of your post but it isn't just daughters who are getting the porn is cool message- it is sons too. I don't have a daughter, I have a son.

Don't wanna do a violent porn scene? Don't enter the industry.

Wow. I don’t even know what to say to such an ignorant, privileged comment.

Glitched

'Italian how is porn by its nature exploitative?'

IMHO because it takes something natural and fun and turns into a commodity. Because it especially poretrays women as up for it, or easily coerced. Because it especially pesents women and girls as liking a lot of things (verbal abuse, anal sex, throttling etc) that many, many women do not like.

Because it especially prays on the weakness of people to be voistic or nosy, to be excited by what is happening to others, irrespective of whether it is consensual or not.

And because it is paid for sex, it is prostituted sex, which makes it grim IMHO.

"Also there are many private acts that are ok to film and share provided people give consent."

What sort of private acts are you talking about that are not sexual and therefore not porn?

"There is nothing inherently morally wrong with sex or filming sex." Moving the goal posts? I never said there's was anything morally wrong with sex, so please remove that straw man before somebody trips over it.

Filming sex, that's between two (or more) people is up to those people But with some men's appetite for revenge porn I'd never say it is a good idea.

PlinkPlink "I also don't think because I'm drinking or ordering a Porn Star Martini, I'm going to be suddenly looked at like a porn star and therefore an object and therefore raped.

Men who rape look at women like that already, not because a drink has he words 'Porn Star' in it."

Of course they won't generally rape women because of their choice of drink! But some men do rape some women, maybe partly because they seen a lot of porn where womem are treated as objects. Which contributes to s culture that sees women as objects.

So I think glamourisong porn is very sad.

It's also sad young women do not realise how skewed against them society is. Maybe they cannot see it.

But once you see it. You cannot unsee it.

If that's what they want to do.

she's not been trafficked she's entered the porn industry of her own free will

This all goes back to the fact that these "choices" don't take part in a vacuum.

theconversation.com/no-feminism-is-not-about-choice-40896

"First of all, the choice arguments are fundamentally flawed because they assume a level of unmitigated freedom for women that simply doesn’t exist. Yes, we make choices, but these are shaped and constrained by the unequal conditions in which we live. It would only make sense to uncritically celebrate choice in a post-patriarchal world."

"the idea that more choices automatically equate to more freedom is a falsehood. This is essentially just selling neo-liberalism with a feminist twist. Yes, women can now work or stay at home if they have children, for example, but this “choice” is fairly hollow when child-rearing continues to be constructed as “women’s work”, there is insufficient state support for childcare"

"the focus on women’s choices as the be-all and end-all of feminism has resulted in in a perverse kind of victim-blaming and a distraction from the real problems women still face. If you’re not happy with the way things are, don’t blame misogyny and sexism, the pay gap, entrenched gender roles, women’s lack of representation on boards or in parliament, or an epidemic of violence against women. Blame yourself. You obviously made the wrong choice."

@LassWiADelicateAir yes, sorry. This is Ab oversight I keep repeating. I also have a son, and you are right. Thanks

I would question whether the labelling complies with the drinks regulator’s code on promotion of drinks. It may be worth looking at the guidance on the Portman Group website

I can't be arsed countering all the porn is great posts that have no doubt blossomed since I first took a look at this thread. All I can say is I agree with Lass and others, yes it is a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things but it is also evidence that the word porn and what it stands for has already been normalised into everyday culture. So yes, this is further normalisation of porn and I am uncomfortable with the wholesale pornification of society - it does nothing at all for women and can only harm them.

I could do with a passionfruit martini with a hint of prosecco right now.

Rules for naming, packaging and promotion
3.1 3.2
The alcoholic nature of a drink should be communicated on its packaging with absolute clarity8
A drink, its packaging and any promotional material or activity should not in any direct or indirect way: (...)

(b) suggest any association with bravado, or with violent, aggressive, dangerous or antisocial behaviour (....)
(d) suggest any association with sexual activity or sexual success;

The ethics / morality of porn aside, I’d say it’s a slam-dunk if anyone wants to pursue a complaint. (You have to have bought a can to complain though and send it to the PG)

FFS so many people denying any woman who works in porn has agency, or can make a different choice.

with the exception of woman who've been trafficked, which the actress in the clip clearly wasn't, that's bullshit.

I don't agree with abusive porn but I think these women can choose not to do porn. Seen 'hot girls wanted' documentary? those girls weren't trafficked, they chose to enter the industry of their own volition and to remain in it if they did so.

Let's please stop pretending these women have literally no other choice.

That's not victim blaming cos if you put yourself there, you're not a victim in my book.

And I say this as someone with personal experience of the sex industry from many years ago.

Glitched
If you don't like it don't buy it.
Exactly what been proposed several times by women on this thread.

Why should moral outrage determine what other people can and cannot buy.
Don't be silly. Buy what you like if it's legal. It's not about what you or I can buy. It's about what people are obliged to see. Some things are just inappropriate. Children and porn should never cross paths. Ever. Do you agree? I think that most people would.

Porn and its culture should never be placed onto a child's radar. So references to pornstars are inappropriate in public spaces. Buy the stupid branded porn cocktails from an adult supplier if you must. No need for a child or teenager (or adult who hates porn) to come across them in M and S.

No one is arguing that porn is great, just trying to counter the porn is evil mob.

And the whole 'nothing happens in a vacuum' argument is trotted out dismiss valid opinions and positions.

FFS so many people denying any woman who works in porn has agency, or can make a different choice

with the exception of woman who've been trafficked, which the actress in the clip clearly wasn't, that's bullshit

Choice isn't just about whether you have been violently coerced. It's about the sort of society you live in as well. And today's society is one where schoolboys think girls are meant to cry during sex.