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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

David Davies MP speaks out about harrassment, calls for stop to GRA reform & urgent review involving women's groups.

220 replies

R0wantrees · 16/10/2018 16:26

twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1052203110335217664

David Davies MP speaks out about harrassment, calls for stop to GRA reform & urgent review involving women's groups.
OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/10/2018 23:24

That all seems to link in with the Kinder Politics event that was on this evening. There was a lot of stuff there saying that social media should be controlled.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/10/2018 23:25

The meeting with DD today, and the campaigning success of FPFW (on a shoestring budget) has upset them, so they've decided to call it "inciting violence".

And they've reported FPFW to the police for it

FermatsTheorem · 16/10/2018 23:27

Blimey, FPFW were canvassing round Moss Side? (I grew up in South Manchester). They really have got more balls than Milwall.

Pulltheotheroneitsgotbellson · 16/10/2018 23:39

Re money: according to this informative FT article, Hammond has his finger in many pies - his healthcare interests are in aged care and building though. He seems to lack the big corporate career and contacts to Big Pharm - he's a sharp operator though...

So it's looking like Fox is favourite ......he has the hallmarks - embedded in neocon & Big Pharm plus duplicity in the bedroom according to this article.

Pulltheotheroneitsgotbellson · 16/10/2018 23:39

One has to wonder who has most to gain from increased power over the population (totalitarianism), increased individual status, more financial income plus isolating minors from their parents and irl community.

Male professionals who work in the DV sector keep highlighting how similar the grooming tactics used by abusive men are to those of pedophiles. They also note that many abusive men have very loose sexual boundaries - believing they are entitled to take sexually what they like - whether women or children

FermatsTheorem · 16/10/2018 23:46

Male professionals who work in the DV sector keep highlighting how similar the grooming tactics used by abusive men are to those of pedophiles. They also note that many abusive men have very loose sexual boundaries - believing they are entitled to take sexually what they like - whether women or children

It's also why a lot of professionals in the field are careful to distinguish between the much wider group of child sexual abusers and the smaller subset of genuine paedophiles - because most child sexual abuse isn't carried out by paedophiles in the strict sense of the word, but by men who simply get off on sexual abuse, and pick whatever pool of victims is most readily available and most vulnerable. The key thing is, as you put it, "believing they are entitled to take sexually what they like" - in fact not merely believing it, the coercion, the violation of consent, is the kick for this sort of man.

Turph · 16/10/2018 23:47

That all seems to link in with the Kinder Politics event that was on this evening. There was a lot of stuff there saying that social media should be controlled.
Hate is a growth industry. All the time it is politically convenient to claim you and your demographic are being bullied, "hate" will continue to limit our speech. Hate crime figures are largely self reported and don't match up to police figures. There's an absence of honesty in many debates, this is just one of them.
However we are the vast majority; almost nobody believes a man is a woman because he says he is. Very few believe a post-operative trans person is now the opposite sex. There just isn't the support there.
On a related note, I wonder about sides of history. Decriminalisation of male homosexuality for over 21s in private seems very limited, but that was forced through parliament against the wishes of the nation. I'm not saying self-id is similar, because decriminalisation of male homosexuality for over 21s in private didn't affect anybody else's rights. So I don't buy Mordaunt's crap about this being similar - it isn't. But it seems parliament and the country as a whole seem to accept the possibility of social change being imposed on us by those who know best. So we have to fight against that too. In some cases the public have changed their view (gay rights) and in others not so much (capital punishment). So it's not even the case that parliament leads and the public follow, if the following isn't guaranteed.
Perhaps the problem is that women's rights to single sex spaces aren't clear enough. What does the law state? Why? Maybe this should be the post-consultation focus for lobbying. Many people, women included (!) don't understand why those rights exist and what could potentially be lost. So they are accepting the edicts from on high about being on the right side of whatever and not questioning what they've been so "bigoted" about.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 16/10/2018 23:49

R0wantrees - your YouTube clip - the lady stands up and raises real safeguarding issues. Ones that will deeply effect women and children. The bloke who follows her (no idea who he is) is far more concerned about stickers being a hate crime. He refuses to listen to the concerns women hold as a class unless they behave as he sees fit.

FermatsTheorem · 16/10/2018 23:53

Perhaps the problem is that women's rights to single sex spaces aren't clear enough. What does the law state? Why? Maybe this should be the post-consultation focus for lobbying. Many people, women included (!) don't understand why those rights exist and what could potentially be lost. So they are accepting the edicts from on high about being on the right side of whatever and not questioning what they've been so "bigoted" about.

Yes.

Which is why we have to keep bringing it back to the practical consequences of self-ID.

Male-bodied sex offenders in women's prisons. Don't let them off the hook with the "no true trans" thing - if they really believe what they say about self ID, then Karen White is trans.

Male-bodied competitors in women's sports. Not just winning medals at the top levels, but breaking women's legs in amateur rugby.

Penises when you come out the shower at your local health club.

Violent husbands being able to self-ID as women for long enough to try to muscle their way into the local women's DV shelter.

These things can happen, will happen, are already happening.

R0wantrees · 16/10/2018 23:56

Labradoodliedoodoo that's the mayor of Liverpool.

There's a lot to know about him.

Much that is concerning.
The irony that he accuses Liverpool Resisters of 'bullying' behaviour is rather stark.

OP posts:
Turph · 16/10/2018 23:56

So have we got three tracks then?
1/ follow the money
2/ sexually abusive men
3/ lack of free speech rights

Davies must be clean as a whistle because #2 haven't stopped him yet. He's entitled to say anything he likes in the HoC so if this ever gets to a proper debate that's #3 addressed in some way at least. Plus we can talk here, even if some of it has to be in code! But #1? Tricky, because although I believe there are major players (high level paedophile rings, big pharma, etc) discussion of this sounds like conspiracy theory. And the problem with conspiracy theories is that even though some might be true, they require a lot of explaining.
I think we might be better off focussing on #2 and #3, and stand a lower chance of being carted off in a van in the middle of the night Wink

GulagsMyArse · 17/10/2018 00:00

Sometimes FWR blows my mind. The information, the knowledge, the analysis. Fuckin amazing, you lot are

R0wantrees · 17/10/2018 00:00

Freemasons!

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numptynuts · 17/10/2018 00:01

I feel we are getting very close....

FermatsTheorem · 17/10/2018 00:05

But Turph aren't those vans taking us to the jolly gulags those lovely Goldsmiths' students told us about? With the craft clubs and jolly sing-alongs round the camp fire.

Turph · 17/10/2018 00:08

Which is why we have to keep bringing it back to the practical consequences of self-ID.
Yes, practical and logical. Practical considerations including producing NAMALTed evidence that TW offend at the same or higher rates than men. Most men know why the sexes are segregated in certain situations and have no issue with it. (The NAMALT disclaimers have to be in there when we talk about this because there is a hard core of people who take the "well, you wanted equality" line; this might be due to misogyny or it might be due to a lack of understanding - and we won't get anywhere with those people unless we remind them frequently that NAMALT and we don't hate men.) Logical considerations including problems with reporting events accurately, maintaining statistics accurately, being able to talk about groups, sex classes, etc accurately. The four TW who beat a bloke up on the tube recently were reported as women. Who's going to notice that if we don't meme the hell out of it?

David Davies MP speaks out about harrassment, calls for stop to GRA reform & urgent review involving women's groups.
David Davies MP speaks out about harrassment, calls for stop to GRA reform & urgent review involving women's groups.
Pulltheotheroneitsgotbellson · 17/10/2018 00:10

It's also why a lot of professionals in the field are careful to distinguish between the much wider group of child sexual abusers and the smaller subset of genuine paedophiles - because most child sexual abuse isn't carried out by paedophiles in the strict sense of the word, but by men who simply get off on sexual abuse, and pick whatever pool of victims is most readily available and most vulnerable. The key thing is, as you put it, "believing they are entitled to take sexually what they like" - in fact not merely believing it, the coercion, the violation of consent, is the kick for this sort of man.

This!!

Yes you are correct re terminology - I was imprecise - I tend to use pedophile as a descriptor for anyone who sexually victimises a child, whether by watching child pornography or by rape - but that's not accepted generally.

I do think the is what these entitled men want us and the public to be deflected away from though - in fact not merely believing it, the coercion, the violation of consent, is the kick for this sort of man.

They break other's boundaries, sexually as well as in other ways (financially, politically, psychologically etc) - in other words these men are duplicitous intentionally. They get off on it as you say - not only "forbidden sex" eg child rape, but also the violation and distress of target, the humiliation of anyone who tries to prevent them and the high they get from offending in plain sight and getting away with it.

Turph · 17/10/2018 00:13

But Turph aren't those vans taking us to the jolly gulags those lovely Goldsmiths' students told us about? With the craft clubs and jolly sing-alongs round the camp fire.
I'm aiming for Stakhanovite stardom in the asbestos mines, personally.
I might even lend you my shoes while you're on night shift at the lead pipe factory. I need them back for 05:00, mind.

R0wantrees · 17/10/2018 00:14

I do think the is what these entitled men want us and the public to be deflected away from though - in fact not merely believing it, the coercion, the violation of consent, is the kick for this sort of man.

This ^^

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BeyondAdultHumanFemale · 17/10/2018 00:15

This is a rather scary thread to read right before going to sleep 😨
Marking my place for the morning...

theOtherPamAyres · 17/10/2018 00:19

Prime Suspect: Jeremy Hunt, former Health Secretary because of

  • All that stuff around "being transgender isn't an illness" and the efforts to de-medicalise the transgender state.
  • The plans to move the healthcare of transgender people to 'sexual health' clinics
  • the fact that the NHS has, long ago, jumped to exchange the word 'gender' instead of 'sex' in every single trust and service

Maybe the Health Ministry envisaged a non-medicalised lifestyle-choice type model of transgenderism, with cost savings to the NHS. They would say that it would be cheaper and more efficient to provide repeat prescriptions for hormones at clinics, or online clinics, that also provided prescriptions for contraceptives and STI treatments.
Sexual health services are the kind of profitable area that a private sector business might find attractive.

Civil Servants at work again:
Unearthing opportunties to hive off bits of the NHS to private healthcare providers while streamlining services and cutting costs. (Well, that's how it would be presented, presumably)

It would be enough to put the spring in the step of a Health Minister, I believe, so can I have Jeremy Hunt in the sweepstake please?

Grin
Pulltheotheroneitsgotbellson · 17/10/2018 00:25

Pfizer does keep popping up....
Is that a Viagra joke?

You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment ....

Turph · 17/10/2018 00:26

Pulltheotheroneitsgotbellson
It's another thing the public don't know - that most child sex abuse is opportunistic. I don't think people want to consider that notion, they prefer to have paedophiles to blame.
Overcrowding in the home is a massive risk factor. It suggests a large minority of men would rape or otherwise sexually abuse a child just because they could and although that is factually accurate in terms of percentage of offenders, it's politically toxic.
So in terms of say, housing, it's probably more effective to maintain the social mores that frown upon a child sharing a bedroom/alcove with her uncle rather than suggest all uncles are capable of molesting their nieces, regardless of whether the statement is true.
Again in terms of say, changing rooms - we maintain the social mores and explain why. It's easier than trying to paint TW as just a group of potential offenders, again regardless of the fact their rates of offending are the same or higher than men.
(I'm not talking about safeguarding measures, or removing housing laws, I'm only talking about the public discussion.)

AngryAttackKittens · 17/10/2018 00:32

The LibDem LGBT lot certainly are upset by the idea that men might actually care about the women and children in their lives and want to support us, aren't they? Today in "most men love their wives and kids" shocker!

Pulltheotheroneitsgotbellson · 17/10/2018 00:42

We need to keep shouting loudly in places where we are expected to be quiet until this issue becomes too toxic for the government to progress.

Yes the comments DDavies poses are very pertinent - so we must keep asking:

"why would anyone want to compromise best practice safeguarding frameworks for women and children?"
"why haven't women and their representatives been ignored and not consulted about the significant impact on them of proposed legislation?"
"why are women violently prevented from discussing proposed legislation by illegals acts of harassment, stalking, threats and intimidation?"
"why have organisations been enabled by govt to introduce significant policy changes that put women and children in harms's way without public consultation and detailed social impact studies?"
"why do the competing rights of 0.6% of the population have to come at the significant expense of 51% of the population?"
"why have some police responded aggressively to reports of transphobia whilst ignoring the crimes committed on those who speak of their concerns re the proposed legislation"?