Serious official criticism of Butterfly

[Charliethefeminist]

link

I have an issue with my login so good luck with the link. You might only get the headline.

This is serious journalism by Andrew Gilligan.

thing is many viewers will watch the drama and not read what the Times (or us) say about it- how do we reach them?

Share the Times article on social media?

Its important as it has comment by GIDS.

FP4W FB have a photo of the article which can be copied and then shared. (Times behind paywall)

Lisa Muggeridge:
'#Butterfly, Mermaids, and how easy it is to hide grooming in plain sight.'

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=TwnUxlzUCNE

Not read the full thread, rarely comment on the trans threads as honestly I don't generally feel qualified.

I have friends who are trans (2 Mtf and 1 ftm), they are hugely critical of self Id and feel it is causing prejudice against them to be inflamed.

On the subject of the thread though, I have emailed itv telling them that I think their decision to have anything to do with this programme is sensationalist, crass and ill-informed.

Dd and I have discussed - she's struggling with the fact that she is sympathetic to trans people (she knows one of my trans friends), and doesn't want them discriminated against but also understands there are issues with TRA's and self id putting women and girls at risk.

It's a bloody minefield!

But that it's now being presented in mainstream tv as a perfectly normal thing to do when someone is still a child. Barely knows who they are in any way is just appalling! A young child cannot possibly know for certain that a life changing decision is right for them.

My trans friends while saying they were fairly certain while still young, still feel it's not a decision that should be made until one is an adult.

AspieandProud I love your sense of humour!

That video from Lisa Muggeridge is absolutely chilling, R0wantrees I cant disagree with any of it. I remember when LM first started talking about trans issues and safeguarding on twitter and just thinking ‘wow, they’re going to regret riling her’

Parents really aren't stupid. They recognise manipulation when they see it.

They're already fed up to the back teeth with the whole PC-ness of trans.

I don't think trying to tug at their heart strings will work.

thing is many viewers will watch the drama and not read what the Times (or us) say about it- how do we reach them?

There is a Daily Mail article too that is probably easier to share and will have been read by more people. It's not as good as the Times one but better than nothing.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6273575/Parents-fury-Anna-Friels-one-sided-transgender-drama-Butterfly.html

I can understand some transexuals being certain whilst still young. But I am sure (based on the publicised desistance rates) that there are even more who were certain whilst still young but then changed their mind. No one ever talks about those when they push this agenda.

I really feel for those transexuals who have been quietly going about their lives having everything turned upside down by these AWA who claim to be acting in their name.

It'll be interesting to see how the story ends....presumably not with a trip to Thailand.

If it starts people talking, and shines a light on Mermaids, I'm not necessarily against it being shown.

I think some of the sure-when-young narratives are more hindsight induced than anything else.

That’s not a criticism, btw, we all rewrite our personal memories to a certain extent, attaching greater or lesser meaning to past events depending on what happens next.

I can imagine that late transitioners (especially the ex armed forces/competitive athlete types) are asked a lot of difficult questions and to be able to justify their life direction with stories that without the later trans context would be devoid of any specific meaning (having a female best friend in primary school or playing with your sisters dolls, for example) must be very comforting.

For example, I had an absolutely rotten crush on a female reconstructive dentist who treated me after a childhood accident. I grew up to be straight so it’s just a crush story about a marvellous, inspirational woman but if I later on found myself leaving my husband for another woman (I have no intent, but never say never!) I could reassign meaning and call it my first signs of being a lesbian.

I don’t think this is the same as lying or deliberately being untruthful, btw I think it’s part of a normal human quest for meaning, but I do think that it shines a bit of a light on the ‘I first realised as a child’ stuff that is so common.

(If you really knew your whole life, then marrying or settling down with a partner without telling them is unconscionable, imo. You can’t consent to things you do not know)

Paris Lees in Radio Times:
(extract)
"Speaking after a screening of Butterfly, trans activist and journalist Paris Lees commended the series’ positive representation of trans people. “Every time I saw a trans person on TV when I was growing up, you would be presented as an object of ridicule or pity or disgust…” she said.

“It was really upsetting that every time I saw someone like me it wasn’t in a positive context, and I genuinely think that this is the best thing that’s happened to the trans community for years.”

The lead consultant on the series was Susie Green, the director of Mermaids UK, a charity that supports gender diverse and transgender children and young people. Green’s own daughter is trans and has attempted suicide numerous times, so the topic of the show is one very close to her heart and she said she is “ecstatic” that it’s airing on TV.

Although Mermaids helps thousands of children, it is hard to reach those whose parents are not supportive of their transition. “The parents who are going, ‘Not on my watch, you can’t do this, this isn’t happening at all, not allowed.’ They’re not talking to us,” said Green.

As Paris Lees pointed out, this means there are youngsters out there who are also struggling and whose parents refuse to acknowledge their gender identity. Mermaids runs an online forum for these unsupported children, so they can talk to each other and share experiences. “It’s a tough job for our moderators of those groups to keep an eye on those young people,” said Green, adding that they are “often self-harming, suicidal”. (continues)

www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-10-14/paris-lees-butterfly-is-the-best-thing-to-happen-to-the-trans-community-for-years/

Okay so it's opened with a young lad putting on make-up.... just like a girl.

The RT article (extract) has just sent shivers down my spine. It's Mermaids way, or the wrong way. If you are not 'in' Mermaids then you must be completely unsupportive.

I am also not sure an on-line forum is the best environment for children as well.

The DM: “Ms Green said: ‘Mermaids has never claimed that children denied cross-sex hormones may self-harm.’”

RT:. “It’s a tough job for our moderators of those groups to keep an eye on those young people,” said Green, adding that they are “often self-harming, suicidal”.

She seems to be saying different things about self harming to different people. From a parent’s point of view it’s difficult to understand whether she is claiming that self harming is caused by being trans, not receiving support, not receiving treatment or because of underlying mental health issues.

As has already been posted, there are definite echoes of Camila Batmanghelidjh.

The Mail article is excellent.

What depresses me is the thought of what happens to these kids in their 30s and 40s.

If you have a complaint about the programme...
www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/how-to-report-a-complaint

betty

I completely agree

My friend is rewriting history regarding her child, and I understand why

LGBT Youth Scotland advocates that cross dressers be included in the defintion of transgender.

Their submission to the Women and Equalities committee:

"We recommend expanding the protected characteristic of gender reassignment to include gender identity and expression so that non-binary identities and cross-dressers are clearly covered."

data.parliament.uk/WrittenEvidence/CommitteeEvidence.svc/EvidenceDocument/Women%20and%20Equalities/Transgender%20Equality/written/19582.html

Why the fuck would a youth organisation be advocating on behalf of cross dressers?

Although Mermaids helps thousands of children, it is hard to reach those whose parents are not supportive of their transition.

I'm not sure I'd want someone so fucking tone deaf in charge anything, to be honest. She is going to alienate everyone by saying stuff like this.

What with that and the puppies and sweets at Pride, alongside the tweet where she reiterates they are targeting children who have no parental support, she's lost it.

And then recommending them to an unlicensed clinic who illegally drug children...???

TransgenderTrend reponse to Butterfly:
www.transgendertrend.com/butterfly-a-mermaids-tale/

Datun, yes, she couldn't come across more sinister if she was dressed in black, carrying a big net and saying "Lollies, sweeties, ice cream! All free today children!"

The court case where the boy was removed from his mother because Mermaids had convinced her he was trans at age 3 is something of a read.

The small boy (I think aged 7-10) was taken into care and won't ever be allowed back to the birth family. His DM insisted he was a girl, deadnamed him and dressed him as a princess toddler, with the enthusiastic agreement of the social worker - the child was already on CS radar (surprise, surprise).

Over time, various officials complained, as did the poor little boy who told anyone who would listen that he wasn't trans. CS let slip they hadn't checked that Mermaids, who were very involved with DM, and DM, were treating a genuine case.

DM and Mermaids wouldn't back down. No evidence existed at the time, and never appeared, that DS was trans.

DM was warned several times by the court, and eventually bosses at CS, that she had to provide adequate parenting for DS, including clothing him in school uniform and not a tutu, etc. And she had to feed him, etc. They made it clear she would lose her son and tried everything, at vast expense, to keep the pair together.

DM and Mermaids were outraged and launch a vicious attack on the CP system. DM persevered. She lost DS. The judge said, while terribly sad, he wasn't safe with her.

I don't know if he went to relations or a foster family, but he's never coming back.

The boy in that case went to his father. Mermaids deny that they were issued with a judicial order to stay away from the boy and his mother as a way of circumventing what actually happened - no, they weren't issued with such an order but only because such orders are only issued to parties in the proceedings - in this case those with PR or potential PR: the mother, the father and the local authority. The judge's order for no contact with Mermaids would therefore have gone to the mother as a party, not Mermaids who were not a party. But the order was made to the mother.