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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Serious official criticism of Butterfly

205 replies

Charliethefeminist · 14/10/2018 04:13

link

I have an issue with my login so good luck with the link. You might only get the headline.

This is serious journalism by Andrew Gilligan.

OP posts:
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6
AspieAndProud · 14/10/2018 11:04

Nicola Shindler has been behind some good dramas, it's a shame she's been involved in what is basically propaganda.

Just like G.F. Newman, who wrote what I now remember where two banned episodes of Judge John Deed.

Dramatists are driven by drama, not facts. Shakespeare’s history and geography were notoriously wonky.

kesstrel · 14/10/2018 11:04

It hasn’t been repeated and it isn’t included in the DVD set. Shock Good lord, broadcasters even have this experience as a warning! Hopefully there won't be a DVD of this...

Ereshkigal · 14/10/2018 11:05

Specific report I mentioned:

documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37566

kesstrel · 14/10/2018 11:05

Shakespeare’s history and geography were notoriously wonky. True, but back then it was very very difficult to discover what the actual facts were, so at least there was that excuse. People these days really, really don't have that excuse in many instances.

AspieAndProud · 14/10/2018 11:06

Mermaids looks destined to go that same route.

Sorry, meant Butterfly.

Though obviously it’s difficult distinguishing between them.

kesstrel · 14/10/2018 11:10

"Suicide related internet use" was a factor in nearly a third of cases. Sad

It really irritates me when people close their eyes to this. There's a whole lobby of educationalists who completely ignore this because they want everyone to believe it's primarily due to exam/schoolwork stress.

AspieAndProud · 14/10/2018 11:11

People these days really, really don't have that excuse in many instances.

Quite. And from a dramatic point of view, surely there’s a need to look at the issue from both sides, not just peddle one point of view?

Even Boys from the Black Stuff managed to include someone sympathetic on the DSS side.

Ereshkigal · 14/10/2018 11:14

It's a thinly veiled, manipulative, propaganda piece rather than a multi dimensional drama, from everything I've seen.

HandsOffMyRights · 14/10/2018 11:21

It's totally irresponsible of ITV to promote the idea that treatment should happen earlier.

We know that parents with children much younger than this are contacting Mermaids.

The CEO (whose son had surgery at 16) tweeted: "She told me when she was 4 that God had made a mistake and that she should have been ignored this despite her sadness for 2 more years. Because I was afraid."

I'm just parking this here...

TheElementsSong · 14/10/2018 11:26

Talking about suicide in this way is of course going to make young people think that in order to be 'truly trans' you have to attempt suicide.

That's led me to the disturbing thought that TRAs might actually want this to happen, because it becomes a convenient self-fulfilling prophecy which supports their [initially false] claim.

Starkstaring · 14/10/2018 11:34

Yes or young people are being coached to say they will attempt suicide.

Or their feelings around gender are a symptom of an underlying mental health problem which isn't being addressed.

pennydrew · 14/10/2018 11:35

It's totally irresponsible of ITV to promote the idea that treatment should happen earlier

Yes it is. Shocking.

Datun · 14/10/2018 11:48

No mention of Mermaids promoting a convicted doctor?

Susie Green's evangelical pursuit of personal vindication, at any cost, will be her undoing.

The four child suicide attempts as a percentage of 5000 is 0.08% not 48%.

And yes, Spanna, we do record child suicide in this country, you know. We don't rely on GIDS.

I don't blame Anna Friel or her agent because they're not alone in their lack of understanding. But, as with every single aspect of this issue, ANY publicity is damaging. Because the uncovered facts speak for themselves.

I think this will damage Anna Friel's career.

Wait until someone posts the reality of mastectomies, atrophied organs, infertility, no sex life, permanent, untested meds and flayed limbs.

Datun · 14/10/2018 11:53

Also Susie Green has disagreed with GIDS over reducing the age at which to prescribe drugs before.

Hence her promoting a doctor with an unlicensed clinic who has been convicted of prescribing illegal drugs to children. And who sterilised a 12 year old.

Because an unqualified woman who works for a pressure group rates themself over an NHS fully staffed clinic.

differentnameforthis · 14/10/2018 11:59

It is interesting that the article also says that the programme makers visited the Gender Identity Development Service but parted over differences. GID obviously didn't fit their agenda. Estimation of AF waaaaaaaaay down now..

TwistedStitch · 14/10/2018 12:24

Harrop and his cronies currently scrambling around trying to discredit this article and push the high suicide stats. Imagine wanting young people to be suicidal because it fits your agenda. Sick fucks.

differentnameforthis · 14/10/2018 12:31

And who sterilised a 12 year old. What the hell???

R0wantrees · 14/10/2018 12:33

Also Susie Green has disagreed with GIDS over reducing the age at which to prescribe drugs before.

May 2018 James Kirkup Spectator: 'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'

(extract)
"Despite its influence, it is worth noting what Mermaids is not. It is not a research body. Its activities are support (for families) and advocacy: based on its contacts with those families, it argues for what it sees are better policies and practices by the NHS and others. It does not carry out or commission clinical or academic research. Its most recent annual report lists among its charitable activities “campaigning and advocacy” and says: “Mermaids has also become more active in lobbying”.

There is regular dialogue between Mermaids and the GIDS, but the two sides do not always agree. An example is on the time the GIDS team take to give referred children the hormone-blocking drugs that stop their bodies developing the physical characteristics associated with their birth sex.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly. The GIDS team has generally resisted that call, more than once saying that “any decision around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought.”

And in evidence to that earlier committee, Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:

“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.”

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so." (continues)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Binglebong · 14/10/2018 12:46

If Susie Green was just sitting back being a mum doing the best for her child I would agree that she shouldn't be prosecuted. But she isn't. She is actively campaigning to lower the age of treatment. I think people need to know this is happening and that Thailand, held up as example of trans policy, being so appalled that they changed the law to make sure it could never happen again. If she is prevented from promoting harmful surgeries and treatment then I think it is definatly in the public interest.

One of the reasons there we problems with prosecuting FGM cases is that people think it is right it was done to them. It has always been done in their family. So they won't admit it happened and if discovered they often won't cooperate. Jazz thinks what was done to him while a child was right and he certainly wouldn't cooperate in a prosecution. That should not prevent a prosecution happening when the evidence is overwhelming. With domestic violence a prosecution is sometimes taken forward despite the victim not wanting it or being a witness- that's because the CPS realises it is in the public's interest no matter what the victim may think.

GenderApostate · 14/10/2018 12:51

Didn’t Susie Green tweet that she knew of four children committing suicide last Christmas?

NopeNi · 14/10/2018 13:08

Maybe she believes things she hears on the internet? There are trolls who enjoy writing tragic life stories then killing off the characters. Some must be around with "trans" personas in the little Tumblr/Reddit/Twitter communities.

Which would make her immensely stupid.

dolorsit · 14/10/2018 13:12

Yes or young people are being coached to say they will attempt suicide.

When I started to look into transgender issues again I didn't go to gender critical sites, I read supportive trans blogs/forums.

I was really shocked at the positive affirmation to kids struggling with gender issues. They were told they absolutely needed medication and advised about suicide risks. I saw people who encouraged kids to claim that they were suicidal to get their parents onside.

It strongly reminded me of the pro-anna websites which I had checked out years previously (to see if it was a moral panic)

R0wantrees · 14/10/2018 13:15

Susie Green's responsibility is as CEO of a charity. One which has had considerable influence on chidren and has been funded by government, Chidren In Need etc.

Susie Green has chosen to publicise her child's experience. Described her child's surgery, personal details, emotional health issues and suicide attempts. This has been used on many public occasions as leverage for policy decisions etc.

GenderApostate · 14/10/2018 13:15

I think she was referrring to children known to Mermaids - if I hadn’t been blocked by them years ago, my response would have been that they were’t much use at helping vulnerable kids then .

SlowlyShrinking · 14/10/2018 13:56

From what I’ve heard of how Susie green’s child was treated for being an effeminate boy, it was absolutely appalling and they were bullied terribly. I disagree that a solution to this bullying was that the child needed to transition. It seems to me that the bullies were in the wrong, not the child’s body Confused

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