Serious official criticism of Butterfly

[Charliethefeminist]

link

I have an issue with my login so good luck with the link. You might only get the headline.

This is serious journalism by Andrew Gilligan.

Spanna, the statistic are not from Gilligan, they are from NHS GIDS.

It is interesting that the article also says that the programme makers visited the Gender Identity Development Service but parted over differences.

Yes. Very interesting.

Bad timing for ITV to have made a propaganda drama, ignoring all sensible and official advice, just as the wheels are beginning to come off the bus of all the lies and misrepresentations that have been shoved down the throats of the public.

R4 has Ash Saakar on reviewing the papers...

What I find interesting is that I have people on my FB sharing things in relation to this. Now these are people with a scientific background and/or are usually the first to question research that has a small sample size and has not been peer reviewed. This however they just take as fact, no questions asked.

On another issue, as has already been mentioned, if 48% are at risk of suicide then mental health services is the right place for them, not sticky plaster solutions.

It’s dangerous because it directly opposes NHS policy of not treating transgender patients until age 16. The limit is set for childrens’ safety, so they aren’t subjected to irreversible medical intervention until they’re adults and are 100% certain it’s what they want. It’s totally irresponsible of ITV to promote the idea that treatment should happen earlier.

Think of the fuss over Netflix's 13 Reasons Why (depicted the suicide when the book didn't). If this show graphically depicts a youth suicide attempt, it's going to get the same publicity. People will be reading to work out why the fuss and I don't believe, when they find out why, opinion will come down on the side of Mermaids.

I said this on another thread, but Samaritans actually produced some guidance around 13 reasons why - would be good if they could comment on Butterfly too.

BrickByBrick

I'm seeing the same thing. It is really quite concerning.

R4 has Ash Saakar on reviewing the papers

oh god

is that the Ash Saakar, who was on gender quake? Who, when someone said 'feminism does not include men' said whatever, you weirdo ?

so articulate. I can totally see why R4 have booked her

It’s totally irresponsible of ITV to promote the idea that treatment should happen earlier.

Particularly when ‘treatment’ is being sold privately to parents desperate to help their children.

GIDS can't measure suicides accurately, especially as some may occur while trans children are on the waiting list - others don’t even make it that far.

A very damaging article for transactivism. It makes ITV look daft, irresponsible and incapable of basic research. The article is watertight, you cannot argue with what it says. I expect tumbleweed in TRAs twitter accounts.

I would like to quote from it but it would probably earn me a strike

It’s totally irresponsible of ITV to promote the idea that treatment should happen earlier.

Particularly when ‘treatment’ is being sold privately to parents desperate to help their children.

this

i mean I know we know that mermaids are irresponsible as fuck, but this is terrible

apropos of nothing, I believe 'gender gp' Helen Webberly earned hundreds of thousands of pounds prescribing hormones to teenaged children

GIDS can't measure suicides accurately

This is true, hence why the stats came from National Confidential Inquiry into Suicide and Safety in Mental Health:

www.transgendertrend.com/suicide-by-trans-identified-children-in-england-and-wales/

Additional numbers can also be derived from Serious Case Reviews threadreaderapp.com/thread/1047840065957892096.html

Nicola Shindler has been behind some good dramas, it's a shame she's been involved in what is basically propaganda.

As you appear to be unable/unwilling to follow links Spanna, here's the relevant extract from Michael Biggs' article

Some trans-identified children might not be referred to GIDS, and therefore would not come within the scope of these figures. Fortunately we can check with a different source, the National Confidential Inquiry into Suicide and Safety in Mental Health. This covered suicides by children aged from 10 to 19 in England and Wales in 2014 and 2015. Out of a total of 316 suicides, 13 were ‘LGBT’ and 4 were ‘uncertain about their sexual orientation’.
The researchers kindly responded to my request for disaggregation. Of the 13 LGBT victims, 9 were homosexual and 4 were bisexual; to preserve confidentiality, they were unable to disaggregate by sex. None of the cases were identified as transgender. This increases our confidence in the comprehensiveness of the GIDS coverage.

GIDS can't measure suicides accurately, especially as some may occur while trans children are on the waiting list - others don’t even make it that far

What evidence are you basing this on Spanna?

Children who attempt, threaten or are at risk of suicide or serious self harm are not just placed on the GIDS waiting list if they are high risk. The treatment they need at that point in time is not from GIDS! They are more likely to require inpatient or intensive outpatient support, not the service GIDS offer.

GIDS is not an emergency service or a service to treat suicidal young people!

Surely if, in an effort to authenticate suffering, you repeatedly make false claims that children who have gender dysphoria are at greater risk of suicide, you are at risk of promoting suicide as a method by which to authenticate your trans identity?

This is exactly it. Talking about suicide in this way is of course going to make young people think that in order to be 'truly trans' you have to attempt suicide. Because that is what trans kids do. They kill themselves.

The Samaritans publish statistics and numbers for suicides. Around 220 people under age 20 commit suicide every year. All but a tiny handful are over 14.

Suicide is very,very rare amongst children.

www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/suicide_statistics_report_2018.pdf

How did Stonewall measure their stats to get the 48% figure? We don’t know because when asked, they didn’t respond.

Dramatists often get things greatly wrong.

Some years ago Judge John Deed featured an episode which, drawing on fraudulent reasearch by Andrew Wakefield, linked autism to the MMR vaccine.

The episode was eventually ‘memory holed’. It hasn’t been repeated and it isn’t included in the DVD set.

Mermaids looks destined to go that same route.

It would be better to put the focus, and the funding, back on youth mental health more broadly.

I've read the National Confidential Inquiry's special report specifically into the suicides of children and young people (actually mentioned it to Stephanie Davies Arai at an event and then forgot to send it to her so was pleased to see this TTG guest post).

The most common antecedents for child suicide are mental health issues, bullying and personal bereavement (a significant proportion of it, tragically, was bereavement by suicide). "Suicide related internet use" was a factor in nearly a third of cases.

Suicide is contagious.