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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Womxn controversy on Newsnight

309 replies

WTFisawomxn · 10/10/2018 22:37

Watching BBC 2 right now.
Looks like it will come up later in the programme.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
PersonWithAVulva · 12/10/2018 00:33

Your complaint has been submitted

I complained about the unchallenged racism. I am not even black, and I found it grossly offensive. That it was not challenged is disgusting. I bet they just issue a small apology somewhere...if that

I also complained about it being 2 males discussing what women should call themselves. But the racism was the main subject of my complaint. No doubt the racism will be ignored and I will get a 'you are transphobic' email back Hmm

AspieAndProud · 12/10/2018 01:12

The sight of m&s selling hijabs for little schoolgirls online - one review suggests the medium size would fit a year 4 or 4 years old - has just put the cherry on top for me.

First I heard of this was someone retweeting M&S’s response to the question ‘Are they available in men’s sizes?’

They aren’t, the transphobic bastards.

(Amazing how quickly gender becomes binary again when it comes to religion.)

CharlieParley · 12/10/2018 04:08

Is it more likely that claiming the word 'women' doesn't include women of colour isn't a racist assumption of SC's, but a deliberate attempt to paint women as racist by claiming that they are the ones excluding women of colour?

This is a regularly used racist trope by gender ideologists - "transwomen are women like black women are women" - often found also with "like lesbian women are women" and "like disabled women are women"

It's never accompanied by a claim that women exclude these groups of women though, but the underlying assumption that they are excluded from normal womanhood by their very nature (presumably this is because most of these males claiming womanhood are white, straight and able-bodied and this then becomes also their default for women).

Having watched Cook's interview several times now, to Cook saying women of colour aren't included in the word women is a completely normal assertion. What I suspect happened here is that this beloved trope goes unchallenged so very often that Cook didn't think twice about saying this because Cook truly believes Cookself to be in the same category as black women.

Now that this ideology is getting dragged into the light of day I suspect many more people will start to wake up. It truly is a toxic ideology - I had a Twitter conversation with a fully paid-up member of the genderati and they made offensive statements on

-race
-homosexuality
-lesbianism
-age
-women
-intersex people
-transsexuals
-scientists

They couldn't argue their points at all because they were almost entirely unsupported by any actual, deep knowledge or understanding of any issues. Maybe they're so used to affirming each other, their arguments just aren't tested?

Anyway, despite having no counter-arguments to my calm, logical, fact-based and properly referenced points, they held onto their deep-seated beliefs all the same. It really does seem to be quasi-religious in nature.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/10/2018 06:28

Perhaps we can use 'womething' as a catch-all term for condescending, erasing or appropriating linguistic bollocks aimed at women.

And then 6 months from now the appropriating bastards will demand to be called womethings too, because they always do. Some of them already want "cis", which they created themselves to other us.

At a certain point you realize that attempting to reason or negotiate with people like that is pointless, and the only option is a hard no. I know not everyone here is at that point yet, but maybe they're at least starting to realize why those of us who've been dealing with this shit for a while are.

Charliethefeminist · 12/10/2018 08:16

I think this whole thing was a set up. We should have let them have womxn for trans XY.

FekkoTheLawyer · 12/10/2018 08:29

So when did 'woman' not include - black women/not white women (whatever). I know that it never included men?

I have never heard this - and I used to read a lot of feminist literature way back in my student days (which the kids don't seem to do - they can't name 3 feminists let alone read anything over 280 characters).

OkMaybeNot · 12/10/2018 09:27

They're framing black women as a subcategory of women. We're not the ones doing that. It's them.

Fucking nasty, racist cunts.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/10/2018 09:35

I have no idea.

Men are the ones who are most often to be found accusing women that they personally don't want to fuck of being "mannish".

A lot of this is projection.

Also a weird thing whereby things that are relevant to USA are somehow deemed to be universal experience which is bizarre.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/10/2018 09:37

Note none of these groups have included "elderly women" in their "types of women" lists EVER that I have seen.

Old women somehow almost literally invisible to most men so it's not surprising.

I mean unless it's their mum and they need some washing done or a home cooked meal or whatever.

AspieAndProud · 12/10/2018 09:55

Note none of these groups have included "elderly women" in their "types of women" lists EVER that I have seen.

They see anyone over 30 as a bigot who deserves to die of hypothermia.

AspieAndProud · 12/10/2018 09:58

Also a weird thing whereby things that are relevant to USA are somehow deemed to be universal experience which is bizarre.

Yes, I noticed that wearing sombreros is held as amongst the most heinous forms of ‘cultural appropriation’ by many student bodies - Mexicans being such a hugely persecuted minority in the UK.

rightreckoner · 12/10/2018 10:11

Ditto watermelons. Watermelons signify nothing here but watermelons.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/10/2018 10:13

"Women of colour" is a USA term itself that all the TAs use.

I know the USA is big on cultural hegemony but this is getting silly.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/10/2018 10:14

"Bathroom"

It's a fucking TOILET the BOG the LADIES etc

When we say BATHROOM we mean ROOM WITH A BATH OR AT THE VERY LEAST A SHOWER.

The fact that it all sounds so american kind of signals it's all coming from a playbook.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/10/2018 10:17

In the USA apparently lots of toilets in offices and things (schools as well?) have massive gaps around the doors that you can see through quite easily.

I have no idea why.

This explains why "bathrooms" are such a big deal in USA for lots of women > there is much less privacy already.

Conversely, there seems to be a lack of understandign that in teh UK many womens and girls changing rooms in shops have flamsy curtains that often don't close properly so people can see in. You get "why do you care when you're locked behind a door????". A lot seems to be based in assumptions on the people talking that their experience is universal, and anyone who says different is lying for some reason.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm where have I heard that before Grin

breastfeedingclownfish · 12/10/2018 10:41

"At a certain point you realize that attempting to reason or negotiate with people like that is pointless, and the only option is a hard no. "

This^

Stop being nice and just say no.

And that's what men would do

WhatTheWatersShowedMe · 12/10/2018 11:07

I've complained to the BBC on this today. Highly sexist and racist.

misscockerspaniel · 12/10/2018 12:42

Has anybody made a complaint about this racist misogynist Newsnight programme to the BBC1 programme Points of View?

Datun · 12/10/2018 12:51

They see anyone over 30 as a bigot who deserves to die of hypothermia.

🤣

R0wantrees · 12/10/2018 12:59

In the USA apparently lots of toilets in offices and things (schools as well?) have massive gaps around the doors that you can see through quite easily.

US case reported this week.
Awful alleged sexual assault of very young girl:
www.westernjournal.com/federal-government-targets-transgender-policy-5-year-old-gets-sexually-assaulted/

RedToothBrush · 12/10/2018 15:08

This.

Would.

Be.

So.

Funny.

If.

They.

Were.

Doing.

The.

Scrutiny.

Bit.

Womxn controversy on Newsnight
RedToothBrush · 12/10/2018 15:18

www.inhouse-online.com/
Witchy Tshirts from the Fawcett Society if anyone is interested.

Seems to be looking to cash in on the old crone market and potential demand for identifying as an old crone.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 12/10/2018 18:13

I don't really want to give money to the Fawcett Society after that 50/50 event.

HandsOffMyRights · 17/10/2018 15:23

Also posted on BBC bias thread.

BBC response to my complaint over Sophie Cook and Newsnight.

*We realise you felt it was not appropriate to have Sophie Cook as the sole guest in the section on the Wellcome Collection’s recent treatment of inclusive language.

Sophie Cook was invited to speak as a writer and broadcaster, with experience on the topic of inclusive language. Newsnight welcomes a variety of views and representatives over time. While some may not like what they hear or who offers the opinion, it’s important to consider all perspectives in due time. A broad range of contributors are regularly involved in our items on gender and inclusivity.

Some viewers have expressed concern over her comments on including women of colour, however at this point Sophie was referring to another alternative spelling - ‘womyn’ – and how this was seen by some females to be elitist and exclusive, not ‘women’.*

HandsOffMyRights · 17/10/2018 15:25

Can I escalate this? Not happy. They welcome all views. Just not those of females discussing female issues.