Womxn controversy on Newsnight

[WTFisawomxn]

Watching BBC 2 right now.
Looks like it will come up later in the programme.

Exactly Quentin.

I know there are very real issues to do with black women being excluded from feminism and they were particularly acute in the American women's suffrage movement, but the resistance to this was more concerned with claiming the word woman and refusing to be excluded by it, than with abandoning it. For instance Sojourner Truth's famous 'Ain't I a woman?' speech.

Newsnight might do well to interview Prof Kathleen Stock this evening (or soon) on the key points made in her speech at The House of Lords.

It raises crucial points and should be a briefing document to use when interviewing Maria Miller MP and others involved with the Women & Equalities Comittee and Trans Equality Report:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3391330-Prof-Kathleen-Stock-WPUK-speech-at-House-of-Lords-Important-disection-of-the-key-issues-for-MPs-policy-makers-etc-with-ref-to-The-Trans-Equality-Report

I am still finding the implication that black and Asian women were not viewed as "women" and so needed a new term to be included utterly telling.

Speak for your damned selves, mates.

I think the subtext they were reaching for is that, in their view, all feminism is "middle class white feminism" so it can be comfortably discarded under the guise of being nice to more worthy minorities. Which, in terms of motivations, doesn't actually come across as being anti-racist or especially pro-LGBT.

“News night might do well to interview Prof. Kathleen Stock...”
You too can have a dream!

As far as i know womyn was coined to remove the word men or man

Yes, and it would have been in the days when everyone talked about "Man" and "Mankind" when they were talking about the human race.

FreezyBlue
I do indeed!

I also think that its ok to ask politely. If you're told no, then ok. Its also ok to ask why!

Did anyone get any replies to their complaints to the bbc? Or do they just log it, then screw up the log and throw it in the bin?

Ooo we are up to Page 3 of the Daily Mail now are we? That's like Defcon 3 in the culture war. Defcon 2 is front page. When it's repeatedly on the front page full scale cultural war has broken out.

I think we are on course for that too.

I've bad a reply from the BBC previously. Completely different issue but they said they wouldn't show the program again in its current form.

There's a certain irony claiming to be real women and yet being oblivious to the fact that womxn is hugely offensive to pretty much everyone except the people using it. Do trans-women actually talk to women...I think they'd know this if they do.

It's like if white people colonised, say, the Americas and then claimed they were sharing it with the natives, and telling the natives they are fine with it.

As for the BBC, it's the perfect opportunity to technically have 50-50 gender equality and not have to worry about anyone going on maternity leave, isn't it.

I would honestly adore it if they invited on Prof Stock to make the gender-critical case. My dream would be to have a formalized debate-type structure, with a set question ("Self-ID, yes or no") and set times for each speaker, with our best gender-critical debaters against whoever the trans activists want to endorse.
That would be amazing.

Did anyone get any replies to their complaints to the bbc?

They say they will reply within 10 days. In the meantime they circulate all complaints in anonymised form in a daily(?) summary to staff.

"what I meant was that Sophie Cook, a white middle aged overweight bloke wearing a dress and without obvious skills might find it difficult to get a job, say at his local garage"

It's the "wihtout obvious skills" bit and that makes it hard for anyone to get a job.

If SC was a skilled mechanic and punctual etc I'm sure they would have no trouble getting a job at their local garage and would be seen as "eccentric".
Plus when you're working at a garage day to day your wear overalls, irrespctive of sex / gender / anything.

I genuinely think that SC if they had mechanic skills and were a good worker would get hired over a cunty woman of the same calibre, at a garage.

Ooo we are up to Page 3 of the Daily Mail now are we? That's like Defcon 3 in the culture war. Defcon 2 is front page. When it's repeatedly on the front page full scale cultural war has broken out.

Yep!

Is there a link to the part where SC mentions women of colour?
It isn't on the YouTube clip and I want to include it in my complaint if it is as described on here

It really is so bizarre. I managed to catch a few internet clips of this segment.

As someone recent to feminism my understanding is that Womyn was something I encountered way back when. It seemed to me to be something that was more used in relation to things like women’s retreats, Goddess raising, nature worship and Wicca/Paganism. I’m frankly gobsmacked that this term is deemed offensive to WOC. I truly mean no offence, but it just seems to me that communing with nature is something that crosses cultural divides and is something that when women look into themselves discover that this is what connects us.

Womxn seems to be a more recent term from new wave (is that the right term?) feminists.

Like I said I’m pretty new to this. Happy to be corrected, willing to learn.

Festering there is a link intwitter but I don’t know how to transfer it to here.

Sorry so I understand why was a woman not interviewed for this segment?

The trans person was interviewed but why was his a trans issue - it is a female issue?

I woman wasn't inteviewed becuase that would be giving a woman a voice.

Think I’ve done it, hope this works Festering

mobile.twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1050147429251575811

I am a black woman.
How many times have you read that on here?
As opposed to 'I am a black womxn' or womething else.
Of course 'woman' includes black women. It means 'adult human female' and has always been used to mean that, with no unpoken exceptions based on race or anything else.

And please bear in mind that 'black woman' is not shorthand for 'black American woman'. Other nationalities of black woman are available.
I do get a bit tired of the constant default to American experiences on here when black people are discussed. There are, what, 40 million African Americans? As opposed to, e.g. 193 million black people in Nigeria alone.

I meant 'something else' of course, but it was a serendipitous typo. Perhaps we can use 'womething' as a catch-all term for condescending, erasing or appropriating linguistic bollocks aimed at women.

earlymodernparent

OMG. I just reread my post. Hopefully it was obvious that yes WOC are women. All women are women. What kind of insanity is our world going through that it needs to be said. What my probably poorly worded post was meant to convey was that besides the bleeding obvious fact that black women are women, that I couldn’t understand why according to SC “Womyn” is excluding them. Not that it’s a term that I use myself but from my understanding of its meaning it is meant to mean women gathered together discovering their inner Goddess (by whatever process/belief). Ultimately I was just shocked that a white dude would say that’s not good enough (apparently women is either). xx

PS I hear your frustration with African American as default for black. Have a dear friend from Mauritius.