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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I’m thinking of applying for an opportunity on the basis of being non-binary

268 replies

Somerville1234 · 09/10/2018 09:32

Don’t want to say too much about the reward on offer - a work thing, with real kudos, let’s leave it there.

But... it’s only open to people who self-identify as transgender or non-binary (or a lot of other words which, having Googled, are synonyms for the same).

Some people don't identify with any gender is one of the descriptors of what non-binary means. And that’s true of me. I don’t identify as female, I just happen to have a female body. I do “present in a feminine way” though. And I’m straight, married, still breastfeeding...

But, I can apply, right? I’m nervous, but fucked off with myself for cowering behind the parapet for this long.

OP posts:
drspouse · 09/10/2018 11:54

I present as a middle aged mum who can't be bothered to put on makeup or wear tights, and who gets cross a lot of the time and can do sums.
I identify as Superman.
So am I non-binary or a trans man?

VickyEadie · 09/10/2018 11:56

I struggle with modern art. I have often thought that anybody could do some of what I see described as modern art, without any special training, which makes me think that the starting point is that you have to self-ID as an artist for what you produce to be accepted as art.

Absolutely! On my only visit to Tate Modern, I stomped round scoffing increasingly loudly at every bloody thing in it.

Lweji · 09/10/2018 12:00

Trousers, white shirt, no make up today, but heels and nice earrings. I'd be ready for the interview.

Lweji · 09/10/2018 12:01

Also, Shock at how long the acronym is becoming. There's even a "+" in it.

I'd also add a "?", just to be on the safe side.

ScrambledSmegs · 09/10/2018 12:04

placemats "I also cook".

I believe this actually makes you Steven Seagal in Under Seige.

Somerville1234 · 09/10/2018 12:04

Between can't get quicker than a cis gas fitter and welcome to what we call the fucking point and everyone recognising my clear agender-ness and the transphobic literal violence shown towards me Shock I'm v much enjoying this thread. And yes, I've told men to fuck off many times. Grin

DH has agreed to have a serious think about it. (Before someone reminds me I don't need his permission, of course I don't. But this might well reflect on him in quite a big way, and I'm not interested in treating him in any way, shape or form like the women on the trans-widow thread have been treated.)

OP posts:
Thistledew · 09/10/2018 12:06

Thinking seriously about this, I (a heterosexual woman married to a man, still breastfeeding my son, typically dressed in clothes from the women's section, wear makeup for work) should properly be described as non-binary.

If we accept that gender expression is innate and is the means by which people should be described as man/woman, then my gender expression frequently indicates that I am male.

Let me give an example: I am a keen and reasonably proficient DIYer. I have designed and made some (simple) pieces of wooden furniture and will happily tackle most DIY tasks apart from gas and anything but the most simple water and electricity. When DH and I commissioned our extension project at home I was the one who made most of the design decisions, including structural matters such as width of a passage way and position of the doors. I was driven to frustration by the fact that I would send the builders a list of instructions or queries and they would invariably respond to my DH, not to me. This is an issue I have encountered on previous renovation projects so was not limited to problems with this particular company or individuals.

Now, I had hitherto seen myself as a woman who likes DIY and has experienced sexism and discrimination as a result. But that is not the way we have to look at the world now. Gender is all important. Gender is immutable and is capable of categorising people as male and female. I have a clear lived experience that DIY is seen by society as a masculine gendered interest to the extent that people cannot compute a female showing engagement with it.

Clearly, I am engaging with and expressing my masculinity when I do DIY. If I had altered my physical expression to look masculine then I would not have suffered the discrimination I did and the builders would have been comfortable in responding to me directly.

So on that basis, I believe I am fully justified in calling myself non-binary transgender.

I can also see why some men, if their interests are in their physical expression, including wearing skirts and makeup, would feel a more constant need to alter their physical appearance.

It doesn't mean that gender is not all bollox though.

OP- don't worry if you feel that you are not exactly playing by the rules. It's abundantly clear that women are not getting to write the rules at present. Men have been exploiting the rules to their own advantage for aeons so there is no reason that women shouldn't do likewise.

KatVonGulag · 09/10/2018 12:08

I don't "feel like a woman" whatever that is. I am a woman cos I've got the bits, even though some of them don't work so well.

I've had kids and breast fed them. I'm a mother and a wife. I'm heterosexual.

According to queer theory my husband's kink for dressing up actually makes him trans and that makes me a lesbian right? My sex drive isn't what it was, so that makes me asexual (I'd quite like to be asexual when he dresses up. Lol. )

I'm an asexual non binary lesbian guys! I'm valid, special, stunning and brave.

Go for the position. Fuck their bullshit.

UpstartCrow · 09/10/2018 12:09

If women are not writing the rules on who is a woman
and women are not writing the rules on who is non binary

Then women who write their own rules on who is a woman and who is non binary are acting in a non binary way.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 09/10/2018 12:09

Isn't it transphobic to link being trans with gender dysphoria nowadays?

Somerville1234 · 09/10/2018 12:11

That Molly G-A link is gold, Zeugma. If I'm challenged, Molly has summed up my whole argument for me in the first few minutes of that film.

OP posts:
SPOFS · 09/10/2018 12:14

As Jordan Peterson said, gender identity can be summed up in one word: fashion.

sexnotgender · 09/10/2018 12:17

100% go for it.

Everyone is non fucking binary.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 09/10/2018 12:32

Somerville, you KNOW your namesake was non binary. If Philippa had been 'cis' she'd have stayed at home wearing pretty dresses & practising the harpshichord until a nice man came to court her.

So there you go Grin.

buckingfrolicks · 09/10/2018 12:36

OP you should go for it.

I have opened doors for women and complimented them on how lovely they look. I have bought rounds at a bar. I have drunk in bars on my own. I swear and fart and don't always flush the bog (live alone). Clearly I am in fact on the verge of coming out as non binary.

Fuck it - "My name is Buckingfrolicks and I am Non Binary"

Zeugma · 09/10/2018 12:40

Somerville it's a classic 😂😂

The thread on here about Molly is worth reading:

Molly Arthurs

Somerville1234 · 09/10/2018 12:41

Empress, you're right! Philippa Somerville true identity was as a boy called Annibal.

OP posts:
EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 09/10/2018 12:46

Philippa Somerville's true identity was as a boy called Annibal.

Grin
RhythmStix · 09/10/2018 12:47

Am I allowed to self-identify as an overweight harpie in lesbian shoes?

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/10/2018 12:49

Makes you wonder if ridicule is a stronger weapon than anger against those prats at Stonewall.

Ridicule, and the right to ridicule, are vital. Taking the piss is sometimes a political act stronger than words and it’s always preferable to violence. Any group or ideology that can’t mock itself or see the absurd side is to be feared.

There is a reason why there’s no fun in fundamentalism.

heresyandwitchcraft · 09/10/2018 12:51

OP, thank you for sharing your feelings with us on this thread. It's a courageous first step, and I hope communicating with other posters has helped you clarify your own thoughts about whether you are non-binary. As I understand it, if you are even questioning your gender identity and think you might be non-binary, then you probably ARE non-binary! In any case, it sounds like you really don't fit in the gender you were assigned at birth. It seems a shame to miss this opportunity, just because you came to the full realization a little late. We all know that exploring gender can take a long time, but maybe this reward was the catalyst for you finally deciding on a gender identity that fits? Only you can know for sure. Don't let other people invalidate your experience. Just remember that gender-expression, gender dysphoria, etc have nothing to do with who is trans anymore. If anyone questions your identity, they are being transphobic.
It is excellent that you feel you can discuss your non-binary-ness with your partner first. But you shouldn't feel like you must share your identity with everyone, especially if you're worried about negative reactions. Perhaps consider what pronouns feel right. If she/her still work (sorry for assuming they are your pronouns now Blush ), then more power to you. Stonewall says transitioning can really be something as small as telling other people, so the very act of posting on here means you might be in the process. Stunning and brave! Brew

UpstartCrow · 09/10/2018 12:57

Look, you can buy this beautiful non binary flag to proudly hang above your desk.

www.amazon.co.uk/Genderqueer-Non-Binary-Rainbow-5x3-Flag/dp/B017HOQZ82?tag=mumsnetforum-21

I’m thinking of applying for an opportunity on the basis of being non-binary
OhHolyJesus · 09/10/2018 13:03

I imagine that any opportunity that is open to only one group who has a protected characteristic then this would form gender bias and be discriminating against others who also have protected characteristics.

I would question the provider who have limited the opportunity to only this small group of people.

EllariaSand · 09/10/2018 13:07

"Radical feminism? That's an excellent suggestion, Miss Triggs. Perhaps one of the men here would like to make it. [And rechristen it 'non binary activism']."

2cats2many · 09/10/2018 13:09

Please, please, please do it! Show this non binary crap up for the buckshit that it is.

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