Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

I've seen quite a few posters being asked if they are a man, or other posters saying that their posts make them question if they are a man (ie come across as masculine). This kind of thing does happen on a lot of forums though, and it can be a perfectly valid point as long as it's done politely and not to attack the poster on a personal level.

The only people with the power to "shut down discussion" are the mods.

The rest of us debate on an entirely equal footing, or as equal as it can be with MN rules, which imo are biassed towards the TRA side, given that only the GC posters are deleted for using entirely accurate pronouns and factual language.

Quite a few brilliant posters have been shut down recently and I for one miss them hugely.

But to be posting on a thread whilst simultaneously claiming to be shut down is yet another contradiction of the flavour we've come to expect from the other side of the debate.

'The asking for a definition of woman is a way of not listening to what others are saying.

No its not. That question is the basic fundamental starting point of the whole issue. If you don't have a definition of woman, you cant even get the discussion off the ground.'

Here it is. People are talking about being mocked and accused of being a man when a presenting a different opinion on these boards. The definition of a woman is not relevant to that.

Hi Verbeena. Thanks for engaging with me. I was starting to get paranoid that you were ignoring my posts. Could I have your definition of women. Thanks in advance

Hi Hamilton. Thanks for engaging with me. Thanks all the same, but nah,I'll pass thanks. As i made that mistake on the other thread and answered, have answered it twice before and you get suckered in so people can pile in and tell you you're a bloke or you're wrong.
Thanks in advance.

The definition of marriage was ‘a man and a women’ until not too long ago. Does that mean gay people should not be allowed to get married? Stop with this ‘definition of a woman’ crap, that’s not the issue.

TBH - why is it seen as being a bad thing being asked if you are a man? The men in my life are amazing (dad, husband, sons, nephews).

But again to really understand what a man is we absolutely need the definition of women. Verbeena, could you help us out with that?

Dismissing woman’s views is what feminism is supposed to be fighting against, not actively doing if they don’t agree with you.

I'll dismiss any woman's view if she thinks feminism has to include men.

Yet it’s so bad to be liberal because apparently we center men in our feminism? Yeah that argument won’t stand.

Do you know, I would bloody love someone to convince me I’m wrong on this issue. I am tired of feeling angry and worried about men colonising womanhood and I’m tired of feeling angry at the women who are helping them to do it.

I would love someone to persuade me, with convincing, coherent arguments backed up with solid evidence, that self ID is no threat to women. That men CAN be women. That’s it’s ok to cut bits off children who aren’t gender conforming. All of it. Show me I’m wrong.

I’d love to have my mind changed, honestly.

See, the repeated calls for one poster to define woman are just such an example of the hounding that we are talking about.

The OP is questioning why some people are complaining that this board is aggressive or shoots down discussion.

Why does someone's definition of woman matter to this discussion?

And for the record, I've asked questions and raised points here that haven't been answered. Shall I just keep repeating and hounding until I get my answer?

The asking for a definition of woman is a way of not listening to what others are saying

Yep. Because when you do answer, it's not right. My thinking of being a woman, nope, not the right answer. Goes round and round.
Not being listened to so yes, it's totally not listening to what others are saying. Gets instantly dismissed. Clear they don't really want an answer.

Stop with this ‘definition of a woman’ crap, that’s not the issue.

It's not crap, and it's absolutely the issue.

My thinking of being a woman, nope, not the right answer.

So what is it?

Teddy , haven't time to RTFT yet, but must point out your misconception of the issue: trans is not the issue, predatory men taking advantage of self-id are.

Verbeena - what is a woman.

If you post 'a woman is anyone who says they are a woman' on a feminist board you can reasonably expect some pretty robust answers; especially when said feminist board is regularly trolled by men being pretty nasty (to women, who they have no trouble recognising)

See, the repeated calls for one poster to define woman are just such an example of the hounding that we are talking about

Exactly, apparently doesn't happen though.

Do you know, I would bloody love someone to convince me I’m wrong on this issue. I am tired of feeling angry and worried about men colonising womanhood and I’m tired of feeling angry at the women who are helping them to do it.

Exactly this! I'm so stressed by what is happening that I wish I could just hide from it. When I was younger I thought things were so much better for women, but now it's all swung back the other way - we were already bottom of the heap, but now even that isn't low enough down for us, as men have joined in and are the special ones, we're still the same old shit at the bottom that no-one cares about.

I’d also say that outside Mumsnet liberal feminists are some of the most intolerant people I’ve ever come across. They’ll pile on you and kick you out of FB groups before you can say ladystick. They won’t engage with you because they cannot.

Mumsnet is the one place they can’t shut you down so they refuse to come on here. When they do their feeble incoherent arguments are usually shredded within a few posts and they stamp off.

Verbeena - I'm asking an extremely easy question for you to answer. What is a woman?
I'd find it very easy to answer! I'm not asking a lot. I'm struggling to understand why you can't be kind and answer my question.

Sorry if this has already been pointed out, but there was a point on these boards where the GC view was very much in the minority, but those GC posters didn’t give up. They kept expressing their viewpoint, and challenging other posters to explain themselves and think about what they were saying. Then gradually other people started to realise that what the GC people were saying made sense to them. Obviously I’m simplifying and there were many bumps along the way.

Nothing stopping anyone who’s not GC from doing the same thing, instead of hiding the board and complaining that no one agrees with them!

Can I just point out that what I mean by delusion is the belief that a man with a penis is a woman. That's the only delusion I mean. And yes, I think that anyone that believes biology got it all wrong despite every cell in or bodies having xx or xy chromosomes (genetic conditions aside) has been brainwashed.

BrownPaperTeddy despite saying you don't like these boards you spend a fair bit of time posting on them and saying we are not nice Why not just hide them? No one is making you engage.

I've seen a lot of posters close down discussion by themselves by being unable to back up their viewpoint with anything fact based. We aren't discussing favourite foods here or which winter boots are best and why, we are often discussing biological reality and biology is not up for debate. The earth is round for example, but some people believe it's flat despite all the scientific evidence that it is round. People who believe such things are not grounded in reality and are therefore deluded.

AdultHumanFemale I’m well aware of that. I said that when I was new to this and hadn’t heard much about it I took offence to what I thought was a trans issue.

Which is an excellent point to make actually, because if I hadn’t read threads in full I would absolutely have continued to go on thinking this way. So it really doesn’t do any favours to be chasing off women who agree.

Ostrich in the sand approach

Sorry, couldn’t let that go by without a titter. I know that makes me a big old meanie.

@AdultHumanFemale

Teddy , haven't time to RTFT yet, but must point out your misconception of the issue: trans is not the issue, predatory men taking advantage of self-id are.

I agree that predatory men being able to take advantage of self ID is absolutely a huge concern for me. But the following post is an example of what I see on here.

I would love someone to persuade me, with convincing, coherent arguments backed up with solid evidence, that self ID is no threat to women. That men CAN be women. That’s it’s ok to cut bits off children who aren’t gender conforming. All of it. Show me I’m wrong.

Men being women, and "cutting bits off children that aren't gender conforming" isn't self ID. And please show me proof of where children are having bits cut off of them in the UK? I don't believe that anyone is doing gender reassignment surgery on children in the UK.