Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

Teddy I'm confused. Are you saying this happens on this board, other boards on Mumsnet or other places online?

I'm not saying it's never happened. Just that I personally have never seen a genuine poster on FWR hounded away by being told they are a man.

If you say it happened to you then of course I believe you.

Keep waiting then. Because the hiding thread thread proved that nobody really wants an answer unless it's the "right"answer.

Again, do you understand what the word 'debate' means?

Plus it was difficult on that thread because everytime the issue started to be discussed, people said it was 'derailing the thread'.

What have you got to lose by giving us your definition Verbeena? It should only take a few seconds. And the more you deflect, the more obvious it becomes that you have nothing of substances with which to back up your argument.

I don't believe most people here have problems with trans people. They just have a problem with how recent demands affect women. Things have changed drastically, and trans activists are frightening for women. At the same time, we have people telling us we're too aggressive!

Answers were being given on the how to hide a thread thread,but they're blatantly not answers you want to accept or see so it starts up and goes round and round again.

I didn't see the thread you're referring to, but if I had I'd have guessed it was an attempt to prevent feminist threads appearing in any active list. Some people would like this board to be shut down completely, and if they can't shut it down they want it to be invisible.

There s no nastiness on here. Again, have a good mooch around the entire internet if you want to see nastiness.

It’s not about discussing it “properly”. It’s about being able to come here and ask questions and put forward differing opinions without being called a man/handmaiden/troll etc etc

Exactly.

And I would like to add that I have never called anyone a handmaiden or a man on the feminism boards. I am open to debating this issue.

Verbeena - could we have your definition of woman. Several of us have asked for it (in an extremely polite fashion). It would be most kind if you could help us out.

Spanner yes it absolutely has happened, in the very early days of self-ID when I hadn’t given it any thought/really heard anything about it. I have trans friends and so took to heart what was being said about trans, rather than thinking of the implications for women. Shameful to admit now I know! But yes, called awful things because I wasn’t instantly on board with what was being said.

Teddy I'm confused. Are you saying this happens on this board, other boards on Mumsnet or other places online?

This board, and now other boards on mumsnet (I don't go on other places online).

Posters saying don't come on this board if you don't like it but this issue is now moving away from this board and into other areas too.

So are you saying leave mumsnet? Anyone that doesn't agree with you must leave mumsnet or else put up with being a called a man?

Why can't we disagree without name calling?

I'm definitely open to hearing different opinions Verbeena, I haven't been on every thread and read every discussion, so I can't say I've read your previous replies. For my part, I'd just like to understand opinions that are different from my own.

I suspect that people are not used to angry, forthright women expressing their opinions with clarity and determination. Or robustly defending their position, for that matter.

There seems to have been a moment in schools where kids were taught that they were entitled to an opinion - even if that opinion was ignorant and uninformed.

Which makes the level of discussion on the internet in general, mostly woeful. Disagree with someone, present some facts, ask for actual evidence and you’ll hear them whine, “I’m entitled to my opinion.”

I love this article:
Secondly, I say something like this: “I’m sure you’ve heard the expression ‘everyone is entitled to their opinion.’ Perhaps you’ve even said it yourself, maybe to head off an argument or bring one to a close. Well, as soon as you walk into this room, it’s no longer true. You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to what you can argue for.”
theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

So between a bunch of pissed-off, articulate women with the bit between their teeth, expectations of female socialisation, and the failure of critical thinking, I’m not surprised some people find FWR too strong for their tastes.

There are many places on the internet where you can have an opinion; there aren’t many places where women can argue the toss as forcefully and with as much rigour as they do here.

Stop defending accusations about things that haven't happened, everyone.

I've been guilty of referring to people (not other posters) as handmaidens, because I simply can't understand why any woman would centre men in her feminism.

There s no nastiness on here. Again, have a good mooch around the entire internet if you want to see nastiness

Ha. Oookay. Ostrich in the sand approach? So because the rest of the internet is even worse that means it's not nastiness on here?
What about what people on this thread are telling you? Being hounded off by being rounded on and called names/told their opinions mean shit as they're not the right ones, or repeatedly called a man or a troll by multiple posters so they feel they can't post anymore?
It's refreshing how many more liberal are out there from the other thread. They just feel they can't post anymore.

I agree there should be no name calling.

The asking for a definition of woman is a way of not listening to what others are saying.

My thread here had to be deleted- purely because of personal attacks and troll hunting. It absolutely happens. Accusations of man- yes, troll- yes, tra- yes, darva- yes and it went on.

And the argument that people are stupid so deserve not to be tolerated isn't very inclusive feminism to say the least.

Wilful ignorance is not a reasonable argument against what has been happening. Unless you’re calling everyone on the recent threads liars? We don’t have a secret liberal feminism board we go to to make this shit up you know, it clearly has happened otherwise we wouldn’t be here talking about it now!

I didn't see the thread you're referring to, but if I had I'd have guessed it was an attempt to prevent feminist threads appearing in any active list. Some people would like this board to be shut down completely, and if they can't shut it down they want it to be invisible.

No it wasn't any such attempt. A long standing poster asked how to hide a board. They didn't name the board, that was subsequent posters.

As you say, you didn't see it yet you've already jumped to a conclusion as to what it was about.

"I suspect that people are not used to angry, forthright women expressing their opinions with clarity and determination. Or robustly defending their position, for that matter."

Yes, that's it. I have never seen a woman in real life do that.

I was even accused of being a TRA spy at one point.
Dismissing woman’s views is what feminism is supposed to be fighting against, not actively doing if they don’t agree with you.

The asking for a definition of woman is a way of not listening to what others are saying.

No its not. That question is the basic fundamental starting point of the whole issue. If you don't have a definition of woman, you cant even get the discussion off the ground.

I've yet to see a definition of woman from anyone that thinks TWAW that isn't entirely circular and/or relies entirely on gender stereotypes and means that I'm not actually a woman and/or is so general that it basically means "human". It would be interesting to see one that isn't/doesn't/isn't. But I'm not sure it's possible. Either it's a circular argument or I'm a man or it's so broad as to be meaningless.

Hi Verbeena. Thanks for engaging with me. I was starting to get paranoid that you were ignoring my posts. Could I have your definition of women. Thanks in advance.

We do need to discuss the definition of woman. It's central to the issue.