Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

So what is it?

I've not seen it before, no-one has, but I'm guessing it's a white hole.

sorry couldn't resist

It would be helpful if someone could explain why self ID is or could be a good thing for women, but nobody attempts to do that, or at least not that I can remember.

How can you say 'transwomen are women and if you disagree with that then you are transphobic' and then not be able to give your criteria for 'transwoman' and 'woman'?

And Verbeena stop making out you have given a definition of woman. You conceded that you didn't see transwomen as biological women, but then couldn't give a definition of 'woman' that includes transwomen. And since then have just stated that there is no point in talking about it.

One person on the other thread (who is the only person I have seen give a definition other than 'adult human female') gave a definition. I had some questions about it, and then the thread got shut down.

And it is relevant to this thread. Asking basic fundamental questions about this issue is not being 'aggressive'.

I would love someone to persuade me, with convincing, coherent arguments backed up with solid evidence, that self ID is no threat to women. That men CAN be women. That’s it’s ok to cut bits off children who aren’t gender conforming. All of it. Show me I’m wrong.

Absolutely. I’m firmly gender critical and this board is so important to me as a way of discussing the issue properly, and not just reading spats between TRAs and GC feminists on Twitter.

I absolutely do not want it to be an echo chamber of people who think like me. There are some posters who hold a much more extreme radfem view than I do, but I don’t find their posts offensive and generally they are well informed, articulate and lay out their position clearly.

I have seen pile ons recently- very obvious TRAs who have underestimated the quality of debate and brought a knife to a gun fight, thinking we’re “just” a gang of mothers.

Verbeena - several posters have now asked you to define women. It's a bit odd you can't do that (especially on a feminist board)
Surely, it can't be difficult?

I like these boards - lots of humour and intelligent contributors and, something I didn't expect, I'm not expected to don a virtual 'This is what a feminist looks like' t-shirt. As in, I can if I want to but no-one cares either way what men think about feminism.

As for shouting down... you can make a point that goes against the general grain if you have the arguments or evidence to back it up. If you try to bulldoze a point of view through merely because it's 2018 etc etc then there will be a (generally) polite but firm digging in of heels.

What's not to like?

Where are people saying self ID is a good thing for women? I haven't seen it on here at all.

To the PP who asked me why am I posting and why haven't I hidden the boards?

• these subjects are now showing up on other boards feminism chat is still showing up on my active feed.

• despite me hiding feminism boards it seems that

What about when I answered that I just "am" a woman? I feel like a woman inside too. How it must be terrifying to not "match up?"
It's not something anyone wants to listen to as you're not "allowed" to say you feel like a woman.
You get dismissed. Not the right answer. Apparently.

Well Verbeena if you don't want to define woman, then that's fine.

But then you don't get to call people transphobic for not believing that transwomen are women.

What is a woman? An adult human female.

What is a female? of ordenoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

What is denoting? be a sign of; indicate.

So a woman is an adult person who is or appears to be a person who can produce children.

My sister can not produce children, she is a biological woman but she was born without a womb. She has no periods, cannot bear children but She is a woman. According to the definition she ‘appears’ to be a woman.

I’d love to see you all throw that in her face.

In my opinion, there are guenine gender dysphoric people in the world. They are my accountant, they are my childhood friends, they are people and they should be free to live in peace without predjudice.

Self ID would be damaging to them as well as to us. The argument of ‘what is a woman’ just proves that actually a lot of you don’t give a shit about genuine transgender people because they don’t fit the agenda.

Now I disagree with Self ID wholeheartadly, I think it’s damaging and we need to find a solution to protect people BUT throwing all transgender people under the bus, is not the answer.

And dismissing anyone who thinks differently as a ‘handmaiden’ ‘woman hater’ ‘man’ or ‘spy’ damages the credibility of a cause and I can only speak for myself but it has lead me to rethink my views as to weather the GC will end up being on the same side of history as the ‘anti suffragettes’ and ‘anti gay and black rights’ groups as opposed to genuinely having woman at the centre of their cause.

noeffingidea

It would be helpful if someone could explain why self ID is or could be a good thing for women, but nobody attempts to do that, or at least not that I can remember.

It's like we have a duty to support self ID, and not notice any unfortunate affects it might have on actual...you know...women.

If trans women (ie a male bodied) are women then I'm a carrot. Words have no meaning.

Why do so many of the vocal bloke types have beards? It is just like when kids are little and they look you in the eye and solemnly swear that they didn't take their sisters toy - when it's in their hand - almost daring you to call them on it.

Thanks Verbeena - what does feeling like a woman feel like? I'm not able to describe it. Thanks in advance.

Omfg. No one is saying we agree with self-ID! This is not about that, it’s about what is currently happening on this thread - the attempt to shut down anything that doesn’t follow the FWR line. That doesn’t mean we all want men to be able to stick some lippy on and pop over to the nearest women’s refuge and get access.

So a woman is anyone that feels like one, Verbeena? Is that your definition?

As Posie said to Eamonn and Ruth last week > Women are allowed to be angry.

you're not "allowed" to say you feel like a woman.
You get dismissed. Not the right answer. Apparently.

No you don't, because that's what all of us say - we just 'are' women. That isn't a definition of 'what is a woman' though, which is what you've been asked.

Omfg. No one is saying we agree with self-ID! This is not about that, it’s about what is currently happening on this thread - the attempt to shut down anything that doesn’t follow the FWR line. That doesn’t mean we all want men to be able to stick some lippy on and pop over to the nearest women’s refuge and get access.

Exactly!

'And it is relevant to this thread. Asking basic fundamental questions about this issue is not being 'aggressive''

If you genuinely want people to answer this, you may have to listen to what they are saying about why they don't want to engage here (based on experience) first. That is what this is about. The only people here who express a different view point are telling you something about their experience here. Repeating the same question about definition of a woman is not listening. But maybe you don't really want to make this a place where people give other views?

I disagree with much of what is said here but there are some points of overlap.

It would be helpful if someone could explain why self ID is or could be a good thing for women, but nobody attempts to do that, or at least not that I can remember.

This

I'm struggling to see how asking what the definition of women is is shitting down debate (especially on a feminist board). Surely it is opening up the debate?

Shutting even 😂

Men being women IS self ID.

Not necessarily it isn't. For me, a person born male who then starts a formal process of gender reassignment, backed by medical evidence can absolutely then define themselves as female (the same for a woman born female and then identifying as male).

Self ID is problematic for me when no checks or formal process is applied so that literally anyone can identify as the opposite sex, even just for a few minutes, in order to abuse or take advantage of a situation.

And you’re right, children aren’t having bits cut off them in the UK. Susie Green of Mermaids took her child to Thailand to have his penis removed.

Then this is one person and should not be used to form a generalised argument.

If I came here to debate what I thought what a woman was then yes, absolutely without doubt the right thing to ask to get the discussion off the ground.

Seeing as no one here is debating that...