Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

You seem quite animated today Verbeena. How about giving us that long awaited definition women? Surely it can't be difficult.

It's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about self ID and the loophole that it creates for abuse, whilst still believing in inclusion for trans men and women.

Can I genuinely ask what inclusion looks like to you? How can it be done without excluding women? I was watching the cognitive dissonance video yesterday from Posie Parker and she said something along the lines of including trans identifying males in female spaces excludes women (as it is clear that some women will not be comfortable with a biological male with all relevant tackle will be uncomfortable with this).

I rest my case, lol.

What 'case'?

Anyway, I thought you were hiding the feminism board because everyone on here is so awful and transphobic?

@Bowlofbabelfish

What I am opposed to is being told my reality is a delusion,

Who told you that, and in response to what?

The OP in her OP,as just 1 example

Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged

How bizarre. I've never seen anyone being told "you're a man".

I think one of the problems with the set up here is that in real life, if you have a group who are largely in agreement, and a single person who thinks slightly differently, the group would not all talk at once, as it would be overwhelming for the single person.

Here, if someone states an opinion with which a lot of posters disagree, they will most likely get 50 responses as everyone has typed their own response at the same time.

It happens everywhere on Mumsnet (multiple YABU responses on AIBU all saying the same thing) but on here can feel like a pile on.

I think that's a real shame as I think most people who post here would like to engage with genuine newbies, waverers and those of different opinions.

Answers were being given on the how to hide a thread thread,but they're blatantly not answers you want to accept or see so it starts up and goes round and round again.
You're right, there's no point. Because when you get other answers, you pretend you haven't seen it or can't compute people think differently to you.

How bizarre. I've never seen anyone being told "you're a man".

Seriously?Lucky bloody you. It's rampant if you don't agree with the hive mind.

Not one single person here is saying they are centring feminism around “penis-owners”? So because I am liberal, it means that I think men are better than women? Or what? Because that’s a ridiculous point to make if so.

Do the people complaining the feminism board on MN is only amenable to one strand of feminism complain about the same thing on pro-gender identity sites? Just wondering.

Still waiting for the definition of women Verbeena.

What 'case'?

To the point I made.You're either being deliberately obtuse or just... gawd knows.

Include me in that, I originally started off on here concerned about self ID.

So you came to a board where people were discussing the very thing you say you're concerned about, but somehow we aren't discussing it properly...

Still waiting for the definition of women Verbeena.

Keep waiting then. Because the hiding thread thread proved that nobody really wants an answer unless it's the "right"answer.

Last week on AIBU a woman was picked on relentlessly and aggressively because most posters disagreed with her view on her 4 year old's behaviour problems at school. Thread was moved to 30 days. They even resorted to calling the child names. She said she would be back after school to update the few supporters. A poster replied "Don't bother. No-one cares." Thread was subsequently deleted. But I've never seen anything like that on Feminist boards.

Definitions

women & girls are homogametic, i.e. with two of the same kind of sex chromosomes, XX,

whereas boys & men are heterogametic, i.e. with both X and Y chromosomes, typically XY but very occasionally XYY or XXY

For birds, some reptiles & insects, the females are heterogametic with Z and W chromosones;
however, this is not the case for mammals

It is impossible for a man / boy to have their chromosones changed to XX
and hence impossible to become a woman / girl

To be honest, and I really don’t want a fight but I agree with @brownpaper on this:

*There is no discussion though.

Anyone that disagrees will very quickly have their points dismissed by being called a handmaiden, a troll or a man.

That's it. Their opinion is shut down and dismissed.*

I made the mistake of commenting negatively on a thread and was called those exact words. A handmaiden, a hater of woman and someone even said ‘men pretending to be woman here’

It’s put me off wanting to discuss, even though I greatly care and am against selfID. It will, put off people like me who do want to get involved but fear asking questions or questioning anything because if you don’t bow down you are dismissed.

But surely it won't take you more than a minute to define what a woman is? Then we could move this debate forward. It would be extremely helpful (and very kind) if you do that Verbeena.

So you came to a board where people were discussing the very thing you say you're concerned about, but somehow we aren't discussing it properly...

Lots do have genuine self ID concerns. Lots have a problem with trans people altogether though and I'm not OK with that.

Answers were being given on the how to hide a thread thread,but they're blatantly not answers you want to accept or see so it starts up and goes round and round again.

Do you know what 'debate' means Verbeena?

And you never gave your definition of woman, despite repeatedly calling people who don't see transwomen as women as 'transphobic'.

Normally I wouldn't care, but if you are going to call me transphobic for not seeing transwomen as actual women, then you are going to have to back that shit right up.

How bizarre. I've never seen anyone being told "you're a man".

Really? I was hounded from another board by multiple posters insisting that I am a man. Didn't matter how many times I said that I wasn't, spoke about my pregnancies, miscarriage etc I was consistently referred to as a man and he.

That prompted many PMs from other posters saying that they agreed with what I was saying and that they were sorry for how I was being treated but that they no longer feel able to post on these threads because of how badly they have been treated.

I can't see how you haven't seen posters called a man unless you only post on boards where everyone is in agreement.

Verbeena, I'd like to know how you define woman. I remember Rat suggesting in a previous thread to Google what they think and I did, and I think it was 'an adult human female and anyone who identifies as one'. No idea whether your definition is in the same vein, but if it is, I'd like to know how it works when it could include literally anyone and not just actual biological women?

But surely it won't take you more than a minute to define what a woman is? Then we could move this debate forward. It would be extremely helpful (and very kind) if you do that Verbeena

Yeah,nice try. The hide thread thread showed others thoughts and they answered, but you really really don't want to know or see it as it's not "the right" answer.It doesn't get moved further. Someone gets suckered into answering, you tell them why they're wrong and it starts up and goes round again.
*There is no discussion though.

Anyone that disagrees will very quickly have their points dismissed by being called a handmaiden, a troll or a man.

That's it. Their opinion is shut down and dismissed.I made the mistake of commenting negatively on a thread and was called those exact words. A handmaiden, a hater of woman and someone even said ‘men pretending to be woman here’*
Yep, had all of that. Apparently it doesn't happen though.
It most certainly does.

It’s not about discussing it “properly”. It’s about being able to come here and ask questions and put forward differing opinions without being called a man/handmaiden/troll etc etc. That’s not telling you to not be assertive or change your beliefs in the slightest. It’s opening up other avenues of discussion so women do feel welcome and able to really get into the same things that are bothering them too.

Yes there are always going to be sticking points that really get people going on both sides, but that’s what a discussion is isn’t it? It’s the nastiness that then comes with that that is the issue.

Bold fail