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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ruth Hunt & Stonewall, "do not and will not acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’

188 replies

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 11:18

Response to petition,
www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

Since the planned reform of the Gender Recognition Act was announced a year ago, there have been daily articles and social media threads that question trans people’s right to exist, trying to undermine their ability to go about their daily lives free from fear and abuse. This week, a petition has been launched directly asking Stonewall to reconsider our work on trans equality.
The petition asks us to acknowledge that there are a range of viewpoints around sex and gender. Of course we know that these differing views exist, and have existed for many years. The petition also asks us to acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’. We do not and will not acknowledge this. Doing so would imply that we do not believe that trans people deserve the same rights as others. However, we are unequivocal in our support of trans people’s – and everyone’s – right to equality and will remain so. Our motto is ‘acceptance without exception’. (continues)

www.stonewall.org.uk/stonewall-stories-category/come-out-lgbt/our-work-trans-equality-heart-our-mission-acceptance

current threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3384045-Petition-to-Stonewall

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384407-Times-letter-petition-STONEWALL-CRITICISED-undermining-women-s-sex-based-rights-and-protections-Jonny-Best-et-al

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384307-James-Kirkup-Spectator-lead-article-Trans-rights-have-gone-wrong-The-new-gender-orthodoxy-allows-no-room-for-dissent

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 04/10/2018 20:38

Oooh.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 04/10/2018 20:38

Pam

It is quite a good read

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 04/10/2018 20:39

The OOh was about Julie Bindel's tweet

pennydrew · 04/10/2018 20:45

Oh interesting... re Julie Bindel tweet

ShotsFired · 04/10/2018 20:47

That's a shot across the bows if ever i saw one. I wonder how many times she's thought about posting that....

SPOFS · 04/10/2018 20:48

Go Julie! I'm interested to see where this goes...

Sarahconnor1 · 04/10/2018 20:50

Julie is planning on telling the story, before the consultation closes.

Ruth Hunt & Stonewall, "do not and will not acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’
Chocalatecappuccino · 04/10/2018 20:55

I find it extremely annoying and downright disingenuous that organisations like Stonewall, Mermaids etc are constantly going on about how we are questioning trans people’s right to exist and implying that we do not believe that trans people deserve the same rights as others.

No-one is saying this. No-one has ever said this. Trans people have the rights to have the same human rights as anyone else. What they do not have the right to do is identify into a sex (female) to which they categorically DO NOT belong and force the original members of that sex to falsely identify themselves for the benefit of others, to have their rights and protections destroyed, to be erased and not be able to define themselves. That is NOT a human right.

It is women's right to exist that is being questioned here. It is women who are being erased and re-defined, against our will. And quite frankly, I have had enough. I am tired of being nice. Women exist. We are adult human females. And Ruth Hunt can just fuck off.

ScienceIsTruth · 04/10/2018 20:59

Don't think you'll ever get through to any of these people as it's like trying to get a religious zealot to admit God might not exist.

ChiaraRimini · 04/10/2018 21:03

Ha! Well blow me down, Ruth Hunt is a practising Roman Catholic.
Shock
Shock
Shock
How on EARTH can she square the actions of her Church with supporting LGB+ rights in any way?
What breathtaking hypocrisy!
Words really fail me.

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:04

I have just cancelled my direct debit to Shelter; Ruth Hunt is their Vice Chair. I've written to tell them why:

"There are two reasons for this. The first is that I have been a support of Shelter for over ten years, and there are other causes I wish to support.

The second is that I am very unhappy with your choice of Vice Chair. Ruth Hunt has, in my opinion, managed to turn Stonewall into an organisation that actively seeks to harm women and particularly lesbians, and I cannot trust the organisational values of a charity that has her on its board."

@TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld

It is concerning to note that Shelter are misquoting key housing legislation, replacing sex with gender.

from thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3384418-Charities-using-sex-and-gender-interchangeably

"Someone on Twitter has made a very good point that there are rules (when it comes to social housing at least) regarding boys and girls sharing bedrooms at home"

It is also part of housing legislation. In assessing possible overcrowding:
Section 325 of the Housing Act 1985 provides that there is
overcrowding wherever there are so many people in a house that any
two or more of those persons, being ten or more years old, and of
opposite sexes, not being persons living together as husband and wife, must sleep in the same room.

For these purposes, children under ten may be disregarded and a room means any room normally used as either a bedroom or a living room. A kitchen can be a living room provided it is big enough to accommodate a bed.
When interpreting this definition, a local authority looks at how the
sleeping arrangements within the premises could be organised, rather than how they are organised.

Thus, a couple, with two children of opposite sexes and aged ten years or more, with two living rooms (e.g. bedrooms), may not be statutorily overcrowded because the couple could occupy separate rooms, with one each of the children (of the appropriate sex) .
There is no limit on the number of people of the same sex who can live in the same room under section 325 although there may be a
contravention of the space standard"
House of Commons BRIEFING PAPER
Number 1013, 21 September 2018
Overcrowded housing
(England)

It is noteworthy that Shelter's guidelines have substituted the word 'gender' for 'sex' contrary to the legislation which could have implications:

  1. Room standard
This method is called the room standard. It looks at the number and gender of people who sleep in the same room. Children under the age of 10 are not counted.

A room is considered anywhere you could sleep in, not just bedrooms. It could include a living room, study or dining room.

Your home is overcrowded by law if two people of different genders have no option but to sleep in the same room. This doesn't apply to couples."

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

The reasons for the statuatory requirement of single sex space sleeping space for children over 10 years old should be obvious to all. This is Safeguarding and Child Protection.

OP posts:
DayMay · 04/10/2018 21:08

Ruth Hunt is a practising Roman Catholic. Hmm

The Pope and Catholic Bishops of England and Wales teach that souls go into the wrong bodies.Confused

DayMay · 04/10/2018 21:09

The Pope and Catholic Bishops of England and Wales teach that souls DON'T go into the wrong bodies.

ItsNotUnusualToBe · 04/10/2018 21:15

There is a direct conflict between the belief that all ‘trans women are women’ and Female Genital Mutilation is illegal.

Or are going to describe FGM as bottom surgery from now on? Or is Female Genital Mutilation only illegal on women with penises? Or it is ‘obsessed with genitals’ to be concerned about FGM?

Hmm
DayMay · 04/10/2018 21:15

www.indcatholicnews.com/news/34750

"We are deeply concerned that this ideology of gender is creating confusion."

"Indeed, the body is God's gift."

LikeDustWeRise · 04/10/2018 21:23

Isn't Tara Hewitt also a practicing Roman Catholic?

DayMay · 04/10/2018 21:32

The Catholic church like every organisation has always had people enter and destroy it from within, much like Stonewall and the Labour party are now experiencing.

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:32

Isn't Tara Hewitt also a practicing Roman Catholic?

Tara Hewitt talked about her faith in 2016 interview:
'What it's like to be Transgender and Catholic
Tara Hewitt, NHS equality and diversity advisor, doesn't believe in abortion or IVF but says it doesn't affect her job'

(extract)
“In religion one of the biggest challenges is people perceive the church as being separate from society, but most would say their faith is made by the people in it.

“People don’t know about trans issues, it’s not that catholics are discriminating against trans people, its just that society is discriminating against transpeople.”

She also claims the bible doesn’t focus on gender.

“With the bible there is more of a discussion on sexuality but God doesn’t have a gender - God isn’t male or female, they are both.

“When we talk about God, he’s above that.”

Tara, who lives in New Brighton, is also a pansexual, which means she is attracted to any gender.

But, although she supports gay marriage and same-sex adoption, she doesn’t believe in IVF.

“None of my views are based on sexual orientation I support love.

“Millions of people share my view but, because they aren’t trans, they aren’t targetted.

“It’s hard being right wing and trans, I get attacked from both sides.”

Tara was on the Conservative Party candidate list in the last election and came under fire when a Sun report ‘revealed’ her sexual fetishes.

Hewitt reportedly described herself as an “advocate of the BDSM (bondage, discipline and sadomasochism) community”, and into “swinging” and “pet play”, which is dressing up as an animal for sex." (continues)

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-its-like-transgender-catholic-10810323

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:36

From Spectator article today, 'Trans rights have gone wrong
The new gender orthodoxy allows no room for dissent'
James Kirkup writes:
(extract)
"What explains the disproportionate number of girls (child ‘assigned female at birth’, to use the approved term) who are starting a journey that can lead to hormone treatment, then binding and ultimately removing their breasts? Is it possible that this is simply part of a wider crisis of mental health among girls?

I don’t know, and neither do the doctors and scientists who study this issue. If you talk to the clinicians at the Tavistock Clinic in London, the NHS centre for the treatment of gender-variant children, they’ll tell you that all the factors I mentioned may be at work, but the evidence base is still incomplete, that they need more time and data before offering explanations. (They’ll also tell you that quite a lot of the children referred to them as ‘transgender’ will in time ‘desist’ and decide to live in their original gender.)

The government now intends to commission research into all this. You might think that sounds sensible and mundane. You would be wrong.

According to Tara Hewitt, founder of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI), prominent campaigner for transgender rights and an adviser to numerous public bodies including the NHS, the proposed research is ‘absurd and offensive’. The project should be ‘dropped in the bin — it’s simply not an inquiry that needs to happen,’ Hewitt reckons.

This is the quintessential trans-rights response to scrutiny: even looking for facts about children’s welfare is transphobic. Just accept that trans girls are girls and trans women are women. End of debate." (continues)

OP posts:
Popchyk · 04/10/2018 21:41

No news from Stonewall on how they intend to force the Catholic Church to accept women who identify as men into the priesthood.

Clearly Stonewall must consider that there is no conflict between the Catholic Church's male sex-based right to enter the priesthood and a female person's right to access that exact same male sex-based right. No conflict there clearly.

It is almost as if it is only ever women's spaces that are fair game for invasion by men.

SignMeUp · 04/10/2018 21:59

Is it me, or does it seem a little shady that Stonewall has a way for people to submit their GRA consultation directly through their web-site?

Rubidium · 04/10/2018 22:10

Ruth Hunt (and Owen Jones!) think that the proposed GRA amendment is 'admin' (2' 17" in):

www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/apr/20/stonewalls-ruth-hunt-tells-owen-jones-my-heart-breaks-for-trans-communities-video-interview

A big irony here is that the adverse experiences of the transgender community Hunt describes at the beginning of the video, ("when they walk down the street they get abuse, enter into a toilet and they're worried') are things that are experienced by women all the time. If men really want to be women, then they've got to take the shit with the sunshine.

HawkeyeInConfusion · 04/10/2018 22:13

So is that statement publicly announcing that Stonewall are no longer an LBGT+ organisation, but are now a GBT+ organisation (and not even that)

FloralBunting · 04/10/2018 22:13

Grrrr. Practising Roman Catholic here. It is not the teaching of the Church that female souls get put into male bodies.