Lucy Bannerman in the Times "Trans movement has been hijacked by bullies and trolls"

[Igneococcus]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-movement-has-been-hijacked-by-bullies-and-trolls-lwl3s73vj?shareToken=fb77f832e38958413ff393fd4832a87f

Your post was very good actually Mip, it's such a shame you had to preface it by insulting the person you were aiming it at.

I'm sure mip is vastly underwhelmed by you thinking her comment was good.

She didn't insult anyone. Saying okay I'll bite means no one else has replied, you think that you might be getting embroiled in something you'd rather not, but you feel compelled to speak.

Just how did we get to a state where politicians (going by Kirkup's Spectator posts) and "senior criminal justice figures" are afraid to speak up and are leaving it to ordinary citizens who don't have anything like their privilege, connections, or protections?

Notice to elected politicians - you were elected to stand up for what is right, not to be cowards. "Senior criminal justice figures" have no right to be in senior positions if they are too weak to speak up for what they know to be right.

What are they afraid of, anyway?

That is the key question, isn't it? I keep asking who's behind the curtain. I have a feeling Kirkup may know, or at least have some promising leads. Don't keep us waiting, James!

Your post was very good actually Mip, it's such a shame you had to preface it by insulting the person you were aiming it at.

What about engaging with the content of it then, Rat? Which bits do you agree/disagree with?

How can these politicians and senior criminal justice figures look at themselves in the mirror?

Are they proud that they would rather be in gross dereliction of their duties and prefer to use women and children as human shields or conscripted soldiers to draw fire and lay down cover for them?

How does this halt the progress of totalitarianism?

Thank you for sharing that excellent article.

It’s going to be very interesting to see the reactions about the itv drama Butterfly when it starts this month.

Great article and, as others have said, mostly very good comments too - a much greater percentage of them from a GC perspective than would have been six months ago, which is very cheering. (Although the transactivists are starting to creep in there now.)

BTW I actually think having a problem with "the ideology" is very dangerous, and I've posted about that before. But I won't get hung up on it here, I just wanted a bit of clarity. Not that I expect to get it.

Yeah, I know, Rat, because people who do that - have a problem with the ideology which denies material reality, that is - are threatened by unhinged individuals who think naming their biology genocides them, which makes any violence against the people who do it an act of self defense.

It is really unfortunate, that there is not more psychological help for these dangerous individuals, but instead just confirmation in their anti-scientific delusion, making them even more prone to violence.

I don't understand the fear, either. Not from politicians. They've got all the bloody power

Datun, I think they have little power.

They have the power to speak up and be heard.

We have power, we have the family, friends and because of shitwork and boycott, Ocado have been hit in the stock markets and press.

We have power, with few resources we achieve more.

Maybe. I don't really understand the machinations of politics. But it's their job to represent opinion.

Excuse me for a moment while I piece the shattered bits of my jaw, which just fell on the floor, back together.

I know. And the fucking arsehole doesn't even realise he's including the gender-questioning children, for whom safeguarding is being specifically eroded, in that.

Woman-hating is that strong an impulse in far too many men.

And women to have power. We just need to make more women aware. They're over half the population. We have the vote and all the spending power.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mums-call-for-a-boycott-of-ocado-in-backlash-over-transphobic-billboard-ad-a3950011.html

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3381396-To-shop-at-ocado?msgid=81453575#81453575

Stephen Whittle's bio mentions he has also advised the Irish government on transgender issues. I'm guessing on our GRA 2015 which was passed with zero discussion, impact assessment or publicity.

Fuck. Don't let this happen to you, UK sisters. We were asleep at the wheel good and proper.

"But look, don't answer that, you clearly can't speak to a woman who isn't afraid to publicly and politely disagree with you and I didn't come here once more to be called names and abused. "

Has someone on here plastered pics of rat and rat's kids and their home address all over the internet (with obviously the hope that they are harmed)?

No?

Are middle aged lefty women as much of a threat as very angry men?

Hmmmmmm.

Poor posie that's fucking outrageous and very very serious given the stuff seen on twitter etc.

Fuck. Don't let this happen to you, UK sisters. We were asleep at the wheel good and proper.

I think most of us were “asleep at the wheel” back in 2015, @irishfeminist - I know it was only around that time I first became aware of the issues (thanks to a thread on AIBU on here). But I don’t think that was in any way our fault, or your fault, that you/we didn’t know what the hell was going on. I think that was entirely deliberate. Didn’t somebody say upthread that Stephen Whittle has actually boasted about helping get legislation through by stealth? Every bit of this has been under the radar, till very recently.

Add to that all the funding from the likes of Soros and Pritzker etc, the influence of a group of powerful, wealthy males claiming to be the most vulnerable and oppressed ever and piggybacking on the success of the gay rights movement, the sheer cowardice and lack of integrity from our elected representatives - we women didn’t stand a chance. Plus ça change...

The only reason women here have managed to get even this organised is, I think, that we have seen what’s gone before in Canada, the US, and of course Ireland. It’s still an uphill struggle, and trying to get the word out to women in general is a thankless task, but at least we had some warning in the shape of seeing what’s gone on elsewhere.

I'm sorry you were stitched up the way you were. It’s good to hear from a real Irish feminist, as opposed to the cool girlfriend types who wrote that letter earlier this year! Much solidarity with you.

Politicians have little power?
They have the power to pass legislation that has the potential to undermine women's rights and spaces.
Elected representatives for Leeds City Council have just used their power to try and stop women even talking about the proposed changes.
That sound like quite a lot of power to me.

Incidentally, I notice that the MP for Leeds Central (I believe the Civic Hall is a city centre building?) is Hilary Benn. Has he had anything to say?

Powerful people you say, I see politicians who are powerless.
Many can't express their opinion in public.
Some can't vote in a way they believe best suits their constituents.

What I find confusing is this:

I'm cynical enough to believe that most politicians probably don't give all that much of a shit about trans issues either way. It's all just Woke Noise.

But if you look at Pink News' own survey, or the BTL stuff from any media report ever, even examples like This Morning which were clearly set up to garner 'boo hiss, pantomime villain disrespectful women' - & I'm sure politicians have underpaid wonks looking at all this - then the public opinion is clear.

You'd think - wouldn't you? - that a sharp move might be for a sharp elbowed junior back bencher or two to express concern, in an 'obviously we fully support trans people but widespread public concern, we need to look at this more carefully' sort of way?

They'd piss off a few blue haired stunning brave types who probably hate them already, but get the vast majority of the electorate on side?

I'm seriously wondering what hold these guys have, that no one is seeing an openly GC stance as a vote winner.

Powder dry till after the consultation ends, maybe?

Purple

I don't know. I really don't. I think it's a combination of stupidity, misogyny, female socialisation to 'be nice' and (more cynically), high levels of sexual perversion in middle aged men in power