Go on then, see if you can peak trans me...

[Rightlikeagirl]

I've come across so many of these threads at the moment on mumsnet and I'm interested/intrigued in them because I have never seen trans women (or men) as a problem. They don't affect my day to day life at all. In fact I don't believe I've ever met a trans woman in real life, that I know of anyway.

I'm struggling to understand why it makes women so angry and also why men seem to be so universally hated on here in general. I've just been reading a thread about how they fear women and how they fear them having a voice and doing better than them. This just does not ring true for me - the men I know I just not like this!

Anyway I'm prepared to listen and find out more about this subject. I don't think you will actually peak trans me though...

Transphobic not transposition.

How they're NOT afraid to use the ladies. Sorry.

Yup. It really highlights the different motivations, doesn’t it? Transmen don’t seem to have the same insatiable need for validation which must be upheld at all costs. Or if they do, their fear of men keeps them out of the men’s facilities anyway.

I know two trans men-one uses the men's-the other the women's.

Do they have any problems in the men's Bertrand?

No- but he passes incredibly well.

I need to catch up on this thread as have been racing around and not been able to sit and read properly. Thanks for all the answers. It really has opened my eyes to this issue as I was completely naive to it. I was very of the mind of "live and let live" but had no idea of the magnitude of the effect that it had on women. I'm still not entirely sure of what "peak trans" means (despite using it in my OP) but I guess if it means that you are opposed to self ID as the way to be accepted as a woman and then being given rights that prevent women from feeling safe / oppress women then I am peak trans. I have nothing against and in fact fully accept people living as the opposite sex who have no intention of doing this and really do feel as if they are in the wrong body. I thought the trans women who speaks in the video that a PP has posted speaks really well on the subject and appears to have complete respect for women and their spaces and rights.

Still very new to it all and still very confused by all the legislation and acronyms relating to the subject but have had my eyes well and truly opened. Some of the trans women listed in this thread are shocking and no way would I want them in my changing room/toilet/examining me etc etc

@tillytop I am not a man - why do you think that? Definitely a women. Currently sitting breastfeeding a baby that I grew in my womb and gave birth to. Not that that is what defines me as a women but it certainly means I must be one! Just someone who has had a very easy life (very very lucky I know!) and therefore completely naive to the subject.

Another PP said something about me being "I'm
alright jack" because the issues discussed have not directly affected my life. Not what I meant. I mean I know nothing about it because of this. Clearly by posting I was interested and willing to be educated.

I have not read the threads on the board in depth before - I had just seen them and skimmed them but was very intrigued by the subject and did not know where to start (3 young children, lack of sleep and time to actually sit down and properly digest it all!) so this thread has been really useful for me thanks to all that have contributed

Bertrand
Where are the transmen campaigning to compete in men's sport and use men's changing rooms?

Presumably because they would be disadvantaged in male sports so would rarely, if ever, win; and because they would very likely be unsafe in men's changing rooms. They have been women for long enough to know the risks men pose to women's safety.

There's really nothing more to say. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Rightlikeagirl there are regular midnight threads coming on by people all wide eyed... similar to your OP... "how can you be so transphobic. . You nest of vipers".

That's why you have got a few "off" replies. I was wondering too and lurking to see whether the thread descended into something else.

Glad to see you're genuine! Welcome aboard and buckle up

Presumably because they would be disadvantaged in male sports so would rarely, if ever, win; and because they would very likely be unsafe in men's changing rooms. They have been women for long enough to know the risks men pose to women's safety.

But we are told that transwomen can compete in women's sports because they have no advantage. If that were true then surely transmen would not be disadvantaged when competing with the men.

Why would transmen be unsafe in men's changing rooms? If transwomen are women then transmen are men and they would be no more unsafe in with the men than any other man is.

I do struggle with translogic. But perhaps translogic is logic in the same way as transwomen are women.

OldCrone
That's the logic.....but we know it's not true, don't we?

Men, regardless of whether they have reduced testosterone levels, still have enormous advantages over women in sports. I heard a scientist speaking on this - skeletal, physiological and muscular differences mean they will almost always be stronger.

why is it always men?

Bertrand I think about this a lot and I'm convinced it's yet another manifestation of male privilege. Transwomen were socialised as male and benefited from male privilege all their lives, therefore feel entitled to demand access to rights and spaces fought for and carved out for women in recognition of historic oppression and underrepresentation.

I think the blog post "Do women and girls have too many rights" hits the nail on the head in this regard:

"There are increasing numbers of public institutions and businesses who believe that women and girls are so equal now that we no longer need the legislative and social protections which were fought for and won by previous feminists. We are so safe now we no longer need the provisions in law intended to ensure our safety. We have such a major voice now that we no longer need the mechanisms intended to increase our political representation. We have so much recognition for our work that we no longer need women-only prizes and awards. We are so equal in opportunity to men and boys that we no longer need any special treatment to level the playing field."

That whole blog post is a cracker, and definitely worth a read.

The cotton ceiling really surprised me, genuinely perplexed at the idea that a lesbian is transphobic for not fancying a man 🤔 I feel like I must have missed a massive point somewhere?!

I was always under the impression that people are free to fancy whomever they wish, and obviously that feeling isn't always reciprocated but it's apparently a sleight against trans people if a gay person says they don't want a relationship with someone who is the opposite sex because it implies they don't accept them as being what they identify as?

Am I understanding their point correctly? I feel baffled right now, and also conscious I'm going to say something that's going to get me reported unintentionally 😬

Thank you Smellyhead. It made me feel anxious and angry so I had to just step away eventually and go and sit in the sunshine with my lovely dog, which is a guaranteed way to help me forget about Internet twats!

The refusal to engage or listen is so infuriating, and of course is a tactic used by children when they know they are on shaky ground in a disagreement 😆

Yes Monkeys, some people see it as transphobic because we shouldn’t define people by their genitals. And also, a transwoman is a woman anyway, so what they have is in fact a female penis, or a large and pendulous clitoris.

Littlepearl yy re sports. Plus, someone whop has participated in sport as a male for any length of time, will have benefited from the far greater investment and interest in men’s sport than exists in women’s. Male sportspeople have more help to get where they are by dint of their privileged position in sport.

Monkeys you're understanding it perfectly.

The reason that it's so perplexing is that it flies straight in the face of any progress that has been made on rape culture in the last few years.

Demanding that someone must consider them as a sexual partner is straight out of the rape culture playbook.

Interestingly, years ago a friend of mine had a man come on to her, when she said she wasn't interested he demanded she have sex with him and he would "turn her back". That same friend told me a few months ago of a lesbian in a bar in Stoke Newington who told a trans woman she wasn't interested, who was then accused of transphobia and told that sleeping with this person would "reeducate" her and she should "open her mind".

These are basically the same incident, twenty years apart, as far as I'm concerned. And they have at their root a male sense of entitlement to female bodies.

Not had time to RTFT but I know just the backstories around the following people have peak transed many people I know:

Karen White
David Challenor (while maybe not 'out there' as Trans, he reported dressed in over sized girls clothing while torturing his poor victim).
Marie Dean

So that brings women back full circle to not being able to say no, I don't fancy you, to people we aren't interested in? Because it's too difficult to believe that lesbians can't possibly not want penises in their lives, they just haven't met the right one yet?

Absolutely bonkers. Genuinely, with all the progress that has been made by women, for women and now we're back to defending why we have a right to choose who we date or don't date. I feel a bit speechless.

They have to block debate because they all contradict themselves and each other. One that I was ‘debating’ with the other day told me that my belief that gender dysphoria exists is transphobic. She doesn’t believe it exists at all and said it was offensive to accuse tw of being mentally ill. I said that there is lots of evidence of different types of transpeople with differing needs and motivations. I was about to tell her that both Stonewall and Susie Green of Mermaids believe gender dysphoria exist, so perhaps she wasn’t the one who is transphobic as she clearly isn’t towing the party line.... but she unleashed a tirade of swearing at that point so I left it there. 😆

...WAS the one who was transphobic...

Xiaoxiong Your friend’s experiences illustrate that entitlement perfectly!

I was always under the impression that people are free to fancy whomever they wish, and obviously that feeling isn't always reciprocated but it's apparently a sleight against trans people if a gay person says they don't want a relationship with someone who is the opposite sex because it implies they don't accept them as being what they identify as?

There was a thread on here yesterday by a hetro woman who has been kicked out of a feminist group because she only likes men born male. Apparently she isn't "inclusive."

So every woman has to delicately defend/ explain why they aren't interested in a particular person without implying its anything to do with who the person is, how they look, what genitals they have or whether they're sexually attractive to that woman?

Are women expected to be grateful for any and all attention, and therefore accept the advances of any person because if they don't they aren't inclusive? Is freedom to choose no longer a woman's right?
Has the world gone crazy?