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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Posie on This Morning

999 replies

RepealtheGRA · 27/09/2018 12:32

Posie Parker will be on This Morning tomorrow.

Not sure which TRA/AWA will be provided for her to chew up and spit out though.

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AngryAttackKittens · 29/09/2018 11:59

Laughter should be the initial reaction to a grown man saying he's on a journey into female puberty, followed by disgust when it's realized that he's entirely serious, and then concern once it sinks in what that means for actual girls going through puberty.

CarolDanvers · 29/09/2018 12:00

Once mocking is introduced the focus shifts and transphobia becomes the discussion point.

Yet they’ve been taken seriously and we’ve discussed and presented actual facts and stats and doing that is transphobic and we are supposedly TERFS. Levity can’t possibly do any more harm, we were already where we are long before Posie snorted with laughter on TM.

RepealtheGRA · 29/09/2018 12:02

I’m with Posie. Laugh at them. These are adults stating they don’t know how babies are made. It’s fucking ridiculous. WTAF has been taught in schools in the science curriculum over the last generation.

Words mean things. If you can’t accept that a man can wear a dress you need to challenge your own thought processess and prejudices and the society and culture around you that has led to them. NOT start demanding that everyone else agrees with you and children should have surgery because you can’t contemplate that your world view Might. Be. Wrong.

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BlardyBlar · 29/09/2018 12:04

Laughter is sometimes the best way to deal with bullies. Even those who are heavily disguised. Rational people will see eventually.

TwistedStitch · 29/09/2018 12:07

Goodness. This week Posie has single handedly managed to turn Adrian Harrop into a national laughing stock and has had 2 high profile TV interviews and a radio one, where despite the attempts to spin she received overwhelming support and agreement. In addition to this she has brought the issue into the consciousness of many people who previously had no clue, particularly men who don't like the idea of the spaces their wives and daughters use being opened up to male bodied people.

I think she is doing just fine.

FloralBunting · 29/09/2018 12:10

Be nice though. If you are mean, then people might call me mean if I agree with you. And it's not nice to have people think I'm not kind... Etc.

redshoeblueshoe · 29/09/2018 12:10

Me too Twisted.

GucciKnickers · 29/09/2018 12:11

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AngryAttackKittens · 29/09/2018 12:12

Again, Posie is doing very well indeed so far. If you think you can do better then put yourself forward and do it.

She doesn't work for us, we don't pay her salary. Up to her how she decides to proceed.

SophoclesTheFox · 29/09/2018 12:12

Laughter should be the initial reaction to a grown man saying he's on a journey into female puberty, followed by disgust when it's realized that he's entirely serious, and then concern once it sinks in what that means for actual girls going through puberty

Yes!

It's OK to laugh at other people's views. It has to be. I feel the same way about this as I do about religious beliefs: I respect your right to hold your views, but I absolutely cannot and must not be compelled to take the content of your views seriously. I'm old enough to remember the hoo-ha over Life of Brian.

I will laugh at absurdities.

Posie: never change. You're doing fine.

AngryAttackKittens · 29/09/2018 12:14

The idea that it's wrong to laugh at people who're making absolute fools of themselves by saying absurd things is positively un-British!

AngryAttackKittens · 29/09/2018 12:15

And honestly I think that's part of why people are responding so well to her, because the public has had enough and a backlash has been quietly building for a while. She's saying what most people actually think, in exactly the way they wish they had the nerve to say it.

seafret · 29/09/2018 12:17

If we could go back to saying that it is a mental health disorder then few people would laugh. We would disagree and talk about being sensitive to the distress of mental illhealth, but still discuss the law with reference to the effect on women and not enforcing beliefs in other people.

When TWAW is put forward as a serious belief or proposition, I agree that the only option is to laugh.

It is the trans ideology that moved it there.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 29/09/2018 12:21

It’s taken me a while to catch up on this thread and watch the clips of PP. I’ll add that I wasn’t previously aware of IW and CBB.

What heartens me, apart from the amazing Posie, is the Daily Mail comments. I know it’s fashionable to sneer at DM readers on here, and I’ll put my hand up to dismissing them often enough in the past - but - only a fool will ignore their views or their electoral power.

It’s only a very tiny minority that actually believes that a man in a dress is a woman.

BeyondAdultHumanFemale · 29/09/2018 12:26

Think of it as:
"i feel my body is wrong and it improves my mh to be perceived as a woman" vs "I am female"
Being another version of:
"Imo god created the Big Bang and the bible is allegory" vs "the bible is literal and the world 5000 years old"

One is a reasonable statement of belief, the other blatantly deserves derision.

redshoeblueshoe · 29/09/2018 12:26

I also think that on here lots of people say they have trouble convincing men what is wrong with self I'd.
My DH gets it because he's involved in women's sport.
He agreed that a lot of men would get it if we went in the men's toilets and laughed at them.

GucciKnickers · 29/09/2018 12:28

'if you think you can do better then put yourself forward and do it.'

It's a thread discussing PP onTM?

Again, fine to laugh I do. Nothing about being 'un British' Confused.

However if you want to be heard, to be taken seriously Parker needs to work on her public debating skills to stop being labelled phobic. The facts are there, there's no need for sniggering.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 29/09/2018 12:29

Men would love for women not to be allowed to laugh at them.

Agree with others that it's a more than reasonable reaction. To eg the idea that posie is trying to "appropriate " the word woman from, what, any man who says he is one 🤣🤣🤣

BeyondAdultHumanFemale · 29/09/2018 12:31

I disagree. Tip top media training won't stop people calling you transphobic. There is no way to nicely say things that will stop the vultures gathering (to paraphrase Julia long)
You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb

silentcrow · 29/09/2018 12:31

It's worth watching the stream from last night's Manchester meeting - several of the speakers went into the humour aspect, including Posie. Remember the Atwood saying that men's greatest fear is women laughing at them, and put it in that context. And remember that what is happening IS absurd and should never have got to the point where polite fictions become untouchable sacred cows.

I do feel like the atmosphere has changed in the last week. We've all stopped pussyfooting around men's feels, even on Twitter where their power seems strongest. We know we aren't lone voices in the wilderness any more. We can say outright "this proposed thing is bad law and we don't want it, and well have our spaces back too, ta". Posie is great for straight talking and that's been very powerful this week, but it's worth acknowledging that Dr Nic and Agnes set this up on TV and radio the week before with the stats-based safeguarding approach. And before that we've had journos coming out of the closet, and Dr Stock breaking ranks, ManFriday, and Glinner banging away, Johnny Best bringing the gay man's perspective, the few GC trans people who put their side, and all of the dozens of women who were brave enough to speak out before that for years...we need ALL of it, all of us working together in our own ways. We're a symphony, a choral event. Posie may be the lead mezzo-soprano right now, but one singer doesn't make a concert and it's not fair to ask her to carry it alone and be perfect. Pretty sure she'd be the first to acknowledge that, too. There will be other voices (and people like me, who scurry around in the background, photocopying the score and making the tea).

And I tell you what, some of those voices had better be politicians. Angry

GucciKnickers · 29/09/2018 12:31

' It's OK to laugh at other people's views. It has to be. I feel the same way about this as I do about religious beliefs: I respect your right to hold your views, but I absolutely cannot and must not be compelled to take the content of your views seriously.'

So you'd go on TM and laugh at a priest, Imam or nun? Well good for you but don't be surprised when you're then called a bigot.

BeyondAdultHumanFemale · 29/09/2018 12:32

Who's Agnes? Grin

NoSquirrels · 29/09/2018 12:33

Think of it as:
"i feel my body is wrong and it improves my mh to be perceived as a woman" vs "I am female"

This is it. And everyone reasonable agrees with the first statement. Tolerance and empathy. Happy to oblige.

But it’s mad to expect people to sign up to believe the second. And they don’t. People who stand as ‘allies’ and say ‘TWAW - no debate’ don’t really believe it. They mean the first when they say TWAW. They mean - I understand it’s important to you that I suspend my disbelief so I will out of courtesy. Tolerance and empathy.

But NO ONE confronted with a ‘female penis’ could surely genuinely believe that is an adult human female (aka woman). They would say ‘that is a trans person’. Which is also a perfectly fine thing to be. Just not if you appropriate laws, spaces and services.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 29/09/2018 12:33

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