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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Posie on This Morning

999 replies

RepealtheGRA · 27/09/2018 12:32

Posie Parker will be on This Morning tomorrow.

Not sure which TRA/AWA will be provided for her to chew up and spit out though.

OP posts:
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9
TerfedOff · 28/09/2018 14:25

Just watched it and thought Posie was brilliant.

Very calm and clear.

arranfan · 28/09/2018 14:26

We need badaass not wet lettuce.

Martin Luther King was regularly asked to condemn some activists for their impatience, transgressions, and failure to conform to societal restrictions.

MLK argued that we need a plurality of voices and approaches, see, Letter from a Birmingham Jail :

You may well ask: "Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn't negotiation a better path?" You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth....we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue. ...

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

Fearandsurprise · 28/09/2018 14:26

'it is NOT our problem to fix if India or other transwomen are being assaulted BY MEN.'

**

LittlePearl · 28/09/2018 14:33

littlbrowndog

Just watched Politics Live and feeling the rage at the man who said sports are organised on the basis of sex not gender. Where has he been for the last 3 years? So dismissive, as was Peter Tatchell, of the concerns expressed by the women on the panel.

Posie's style isn't mine - I'm too conciliatory - but we really do need women like her who WILL NOT tip-toe round the edges of the debate. Though I winced a bit a couple of times watching This Morning I'm glad she's so uncompromising, straight-talking and unapologetic.

enrichedatthegulags · 28/09/2018 14:33

But TV demands "debate" so if you don't like Posie Parker then you won't get anyone at all. That's the reality.

Squirrels I'm sure you're right. It's all so messed up.
I also very much understand why she is (and needs to be) angry about the issues (I had a discussion with my SIL (very pro trans) who used the fact the male in question had shaved his legs as a point to evidence that he was a woman. I literally screamed WTF DOES SHAVING YOUR LEGS HAVE TO DO WITH BEING A WOMAN?! At her)

howard97A · 28/09/2018 14:35

Saying if she got raped she should start her own organisation was a bit much even for me

Tragic though it is, getting raped doesn't transform a man into a woman.

NewWomensMovement · 28/09/2018 14:39

The fact that she isn't conciliatory is what is so brilliant.

No one has a come back. They are all so used to being able to hint and insinuate people into compliance.

arranfan · 28/09/2018 14:39

enrichedatthegulags wrote: I had a discussion with my SIL (very pro trans) who used the fact the male in question had shaved his legs as a point to evidence that he was a woman.

So, your SIL affects to believe that every male cyclist, swimmer etc. who does this is evidence that they should, in fact, declare themselves as female? Hmm

Ffsnosexallowed · 28/09/2018 14:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

pennydrew · 28/09/2018 14:42

Fearandsurprise ☺️ Thanks! I just thought it was such typical tactics, which they did not direct towards India at all. Funny that.

We must keep saying it every time someone, anyone anywhere, asks us questions like that, which ask us to prioritise men or transwomen over ourselves and our rights. This has been done to women since time began & we must push back anytime it happens. We should point out each time: please do not ask me to prioritise other peoples needs and feelings above my own safety or rights. Say it loudly and firmly regardless of the topic- they deliberately chose an emotive one to make it look like she didn’t care about trans rape victims.

NewWomensMovement · 28/09/2018 14:45

please do not ask me to prioritise other peoples needs and feelings above my own safety or rights.

hear hear

TonnoEMaionese · 28/09/2018 14:45

Saying if she got raped she should start her own organisation was a bit much even for me

The thing is that a woman's rape support facility probably isn't going to be appropriate for India as well as bad for the women using it.

Practically, if a transwoman is raped, there's going to be different injury - a surgeon or HCP trained to deal with vaginas and vulvas is not going to be an expert on the construction of a neovagina and what injuries may have been caused/how to fix them.

Mentally, the issues that it brings up for a transwoman I would have thought would be very diffferent to those for a woman too.

Specific counseling is much more appropriate than bundling transwoman and women together.

BiologyIsReal · 28/09/2018 14:46

Only just seen this. Leaving aside the who said what may I comment purely as a retired journalist and communications person who has media trained many people.

That interview was a stitch up. It was three against one with all three being journalists who know how to play the game. Remember India was an experienced TV reporter. It looked like there was collusion behind the scenes. There was no attempt at neutrality or objectivity. It was disgraceful.

I leave the thought with posters - this was ITV. India in their former life was an ITV journalist as well.......

Please Posie: you are strong, articulate and super intelligent. Get some media training that will alert you how to spot a likely stitch up, how to piggy back your key points off the questions and bring the interview (or interrogation in this case) back on to the ground you need to inhabit and away from the personal.

Given the disgraceful circumstances you did as well as you possibly could.

The only thing missing from soft focus India was the violin......

LadyRochfordsHoickedGusset · 28/09/2018 14:47

IW banging on about the possibility of female sexual predators in a women's refuge. Does she not see how rarely that happens?

CecilyNeville · 28/09/2018 14:51

Just caught up with Zarb Cousin and Tatchell on Politics Live. I just cannot understand how they can hear all three of the women present make broadly the same points about women's safety and competing rights etc and just come back with, "no, you're wrong, and I'll tell you why". They don't appear to stop for one moment and consider that if 100% of the women in the room are saying something that affects them in a way that doesn't affect him (as a male) - could there be something in that? The arrogance, the dismissal. It's enraging.

Winterlight · 28/09/2018 14:52

What about the journey of those women who have suffered domestic abuse, sexual assault, those who are committed to caring for disabled children or elderly parents, single parents struggling on the breadline?

Why are their journies not worthy of consideration?
Only one type of performance of femininity appears to qualify for sympathy.

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 28/09/2018 14:52

Why has the you tube link been blocked?

It says it has been blocked on 'copyright grounds' but is this really ITV just wanting to stifle debate and avoid revealing what bullies they are?

Helmetbymidnight · 28/09/2018 14:53

Kudos to Posie for putting herself out there again. Brilliant woman.

Yeah, she didn't gain traction today like last time and that's coz of Eamonn and Ruth - urgh. I used to like Ruth - not anymore. That 'angry' question was just sooo pathetic.

India played the victim very well. It might be that people watching will think, 'aww poor pwetty lady.'

I note on her twitter, she retweeted someone who said how much better she looks than 'real women'. Those are her priorities - and it sucks that so many women seem unable to think beyond that too.

Juells · 28/09/2018 14:54

The only thing missing from soft focus India was the violin......

I had a post deleted for mentioning violins a week or so ago :( Dangerous territory that.

Honestagod I'm sick of the "Posie's so mean!" tweets and posts. Are we all children?

enrichedatthegulags · 28/09/2018 14:54

@arranfan no, but if they put on a dress too then yes? I have no idea tbh. I think she realised her "woke" point of view was actually incredibly old fashioned and sexist at that point and she went all quiet

Juells · 28/09/2018 14:58

I don't think we should be too disheartened about the ambush - now that that's happened, she'll never agree to a set-up like that again. So it's been a useful experience. She's great on TV, so she'll have plenty of other opportunities to hone her presentation.

GenerationEx · 28/09/2018 14:58

I think Posie did a great job considering the up hill battle she had with a very biased segment.

Her authenticity is a great asset and I would guess many more people are able to relate to her as a woman than IW and the sob story.

She will only get better at navigating these interviews with more exposure, and I am personally looking forward to seeing who she takes on next!

littlbrowndog · 28/09/2018 14:59

Not to derail but on the bbc no dissenting voices are ever heard
So that is why is was so interesting
Usually it’s the wee violins for the brave and stunning on a journry

First time I have heard this allowed to happen

Women are getting braver
And men just keep trying to shut us up
But fuck em we won’t
Go posie

ferrier · 28/09/2018 15:00

They are defending the rights of a trans woman police officer with a penis to intimately search a woman who has been arrested.

I cannot believe that anyone watching would not see this as rape. So thank you Eamonn, for bringing it to the public's attention that this is a natural consequence of allowing those who 'identify' as women to access women and potentially rape them with no consequence.

BiologyIsReal · 28/09/2018 15:00

Am repeating my post minus the last line - didn't realise it was verbotten. Thanks Juells.

Only just seen this. Leaving aside the who said what may I comment purely as a retired journalist and communications person who has media trained many people.

That interview was a stitch up. It was three against one with all three being journalists who know how to play the game. Remember India was an experienced TV reporter. It looked like there was collusion behind the scenes. There was no attempt at neutrality or objectivity. It was disgraceful.

I leave the thought with posters - this was ITV. India in their former life was an ITV journalist as well.......

Please Posie: you are strong, articulate and super intelligent. Get some media training that will alert you how to spot a likely stitch up, how to piggy back your key points off the questions and bring the interview (or interrogation in this case) back on to the ground you need to inhabit and away from the personal.

Given the disgraceful circumstances you did as well as you possibly could.

[Sorry mumnet - mea culpa]

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