Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

I think it’s a brilliant email

Starkstaring

This is how Guides should be inclusive:

Welcome any female bodied young person - whatever gender they identify as.

Yes! Perfect! Exactly this ^

Indeed, Starkstaring, that's a much better model for inclusivity.

I'd also add that they shouldn't actively exclude girls from certain cultural backgrounds or those who've suffered abuse and should not be forced into contact with male bodied persons.

Gendered Intelligence by the way advised the MoJ on their current transgender prisoner policy.

They also wrote the 2 sets of 2015/16 government guidelines (for employers and service providers) following the Miller Trans Inquiry which brought about the idea that MTFs including non binary etc without GRCs had an absolute right to access all female spaces without question or compromise.

If you look for that in the wording of the EA you'll be searching a long time.

This is the complete opposite to how single sex schools handle trans issues (ie, allowing transboys to stay at girls schools and transgirls to stay at boys schools).

Has nobody at Girl Guiding stopped to consider why that is?

Also the logic fail is stupendous and embarrassing. No, being trans doesn't make it more likely (a priori). But being male does, hello...as I said above boys identifying as boys is a no no but suddenly because they identify differently it's yes yes come in? If they say these males present no risk, then why do other males present a risk?

Brilliant because it highlights how out of order they are?

I don't get why they are doing this though. I thought the same earlier on the thread about the menstrual product company using a 'content warning' for the word 'woman'. If the bread and butter of your organisation is biologically female people what do you get out of alienating them to appease a tiny group of campaigners who probably have no use of your services? Or is it just that women and girls are so far down the pecking order that even businesses/orgs that rely on them think they'll just accept their erasure?

I got it too. Bloody stupid mail.

Redkeyboard-“So what, Girl Guides message to their girls is: if you don't let us allow men and boys into your tents and showers and hide it from your parents you are discriminating against them?

Fuck that.”
Is exactly what I read from that email. Along with lines like “it’s been hard to hear” and “we’ve been saddened,” I just don’t have any sympathy what so ever for people who are slashing girls boundaries, forcing them to think it’s ok or they are a bigots and lying to parents.
Let’s not forget that the key here is safeguarding.
So it seems also they haven’t been happy about getting a roasting over taking advice from the likes of John Fae- who’s history I am now familiar with. 😬 but not specifically mentioning which individuals have had input and which groups. It’s a crappy email with no substance.

So by changing from a single sex organisation to a single gender organisation, they're being inclusionary to trans girls. The necessary corollary of that is they're being exclusionary to trans boys.

So, a subset of female children miss out on the fantastic experiences offered in GG.

Isn't it funny that whichever way you cut the gender cake, it's female people who get the shittiest, smallest slice.

It drove me crazy as it was like they couldn't decide whether to call the kids girls or young people - FFS it's called girlguiding

@ChilliJamandAvocado that's it isn't it?! Whichever way it's presented girls are worse off. So the history of the world is perpetuated and girls leave GGUK in droves and trans girls will join making it TransGirlGuidesUK 2018.

(I have a toddler boy so not personally invested but have been watching avidly to see how this turns out...I think I peak-transed today watching Good Morning Britain...not sure what that says about me...)

I want to know what they plan to do to support Muslim girls. Please will someone ask that I. Their email please-I'm no longer associated with the movement. One of the reasons Guides remained single sex was to enable girls who would not be allowed for religious, cultural or family reasons to join a mixed sex group. What will happen to them now?

Girlguiding is a young people’s organisation.

Not single sex.

I shall be replying to this email to enquire if they can confirm they are now a mixed sex organisation.

I'm glad they've emailed everyone, all parents and guides need to know what's happening. Even if they're white-washing it, it raises the issue.

They’re a charity, right? A charity can’t just change its constitution without due process.

What does the GG constitution day about its single sex status?

well, I'm convinced by it - 'It does not' is such a complete argument full of facts that refute those safeguarding concerns at a really intellectual level. Its very hard to argue with now I know 'it does not'

For me, it really shows me that two girl guide lesbians, one with a penis one without are not going to have sex when sharing a tent and therefore risk pregnancy.

As an organisation we pride ourselves on caring for every individual. Simply being transgender does not make someone more of a safeguarding risk than any other person

The point is that is being missed here is sex.

Girl Guiding's focus was caring for each individual girl and female volunteer because it was a single sex organisation.

A child/young person who is male and a volunteer who is male is relevent to some safeguarding assessments because of their sex in the context they are present.

This should never be about individuals.

They should maybe have a wee read of their Royal Charter as well...

I think that email shows just how rattled GG are right now; which means, just how successful the hard work of @AgnesBadenPowell and Fair Play For Women (and all the other women that have emailed, and written, and questioned, and campaigned) has been. Sticking to their guns; researching, reasoning, staying calm and never letting go of the important issues. Trying so hard to get GG to act in a principled manner and obey the law (and common sense) because they care deeply about the organisation; but never ever letting them off the hook about the things that matter: safeguarding, and spaces for girls. And when GG threw their toys out the pram, having the courage to take this to the media and make their stand from outside. I'm so impressed.

It's seemingly not theoretical:

Growing-up-trans
‏

@DadTrans
1h
1 hour ago
Replying to @Girlguiding
My daughter is in guiding. She happens to be trans, but honestly that is the least interesting thing about her. Her leaders couldn't have been more welcoming or inclusive and have been horrified and embarrassed by the recent media nonsense. Thank you for standing up #forallgirls.

twitter.com/DadTrans

A MtF according to the father's website.

I conclude that the leaders of the GG organisation believe that trans identifying adolescent boys are teenage girls (TWAW).

Will they explain the reason for this starting point?

I just got this email and am trying to formulate some kind of response that consists of more than "bullshit"... My DD is currently in her last term of Brownies and I don't want to stop her going to guides as she really really wants to but I need some proper confirmation that she'd be as safe as possible and at the moment GGUK really aren't providing that.

well, I'm convinced by it - 'It does not' is such a complete argument full of facts that refute those safeguarding concerns at a really intellectual level. Its very hard to argue with now I know 'it does not'

although also and