Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

WittyName4

any dissent is ganged up upon, beaten down and drowned out.

The fucking irony of someone who supports the TRA campaign saying that on here is breathtaking.

I wouldn't waste your breath. You're not alone and the world is changing for the better and becoming more tolerant of all people but when you're up against the internet echo chamber any dissent is ganged up upon, beaten down and drowned out. Luckily the real world is out there and is a much more pleasant place.

See that's all very lovely and stuff, but you haven't actually said a single thing of substance in that paragraph.

Ironic about dissent being beaten down and drowned out as well ('repeat after us'.....Adult human female billboards being taken down etc etc).

Oh and we still haven't had a workable definition of 'woman'.

AmyRhodes doesn't sound like any woman I've ever known.

Oh great more genderist plopping.

So the winning argument is ‘girls, be nice ‘

Amirite?

I'm still reeling from the answer to the question about why we don't just mix the sexes all the time being 'Well, if I was in there with my boyfriend we'd canoodle'.

It's like shooting really, really annoying fish in a barrel.

"AmyRhodes doesn't sound like any woman I've ever known."

Didn't like to put it as bluntly as that!

Also the assumtion that all the posters on this thread "identify as" girls...? This goes against all genderist guidelines doesn't it?

"transmen/boys, Sikh and Muslim girls, looked after girls, survivors of sexual assault, girls self-conscious about their bodies"

Yeah but who cares about them?

A superior sort of girl is on the scene and old style cunty ones need to step aside quietly.

Still waiting for the answer to why we don't shove girls and boys in together all the time...

Damn, this thread is moving fast, just now caught up (I think). Thanks to the TWAW crowd who have stuck around to talk about this, but I do think that these discussions would be a lot more productive if someone would be willing to provide the definitions of... let's say "contested" words.

The only reason you can understand the ideas I am trying to communicate to you right now is because we both speak using words which have an agreed upon meaning. Words are important because without them we have no way of putting the ideas we have into the brains of others. Humans don't have psychic powers.

So, when you say "trans women are women", we need to hammer out what the word "woman" signifies, because clearly there is some disagreement. And "trans", for that matter, though I can see at least one poster here has taken a stab at that one. I've seen a couple attempted definitions of woman, so I'll outline them really briefly and my issues with them:

1. A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman. This one is a non-answer, frankly. If I said I identified as a gleepglorp, and you said "WTF is a gleepglorp?" and I responded with "Anyone who says they are a gleepglorp", I have told you nothing. How does one determine if they identify as a woman? What are the qualifications? What distinguishing characteristic/s do women have that men do not?

2. A woman is someone who identifies with the social role of women in society. Well, that means basically all feminists are right out. I'm a feminist precisely because I think that the social role of women has historically been, and continues to be in many repects, shit. To say that womanhood is about agreement with gendered restrictions is something I find incredibly frustrating.

Not incidentally, female human beings have fought for their rights and had those rights enshrined into law using the word "woman". If we as a society decide that the word now has a different meaning than it did when those laws were passed, that has an impact on female people. We aren't objecting to changing definitions because we like being assholes to people who are different, we're doing it because it has real consequences for us.

I won't @ anyone just yet, on the offchance that you haven't left in the time it has taken me to type all this. Thanks for sticking around for a bit. It's never fun to be arguing your point against a handful of people at the same time about a heated topic, but most of the posters here are starving for actual engagement with the opposition.

See that's all very lovely and stuff, but you haven't actually said a single thing of substance in that paragraph.

In that paragraph? A bit too generous here, are we Elephant?

Luckily the real world is out there...

Is this opposit day? The one thing that will bring this house of cards crashing down is the material reality of the real world.

This all reminds me of Karl 'let's invade Iraq' Roves droning on about 'we are empire... and we create our own reality...'. Of course, a couple of years later, it all came crashing down and everyone and their dog understood the Iraq Invasion had been a murderous disaster and a war crime based on lies. (Even though right after the invasion 70% US citizens and 80% of US Iraq service men believed they were in Iraq as a revenge for 9/11).

This 'I feel therefore I am' crap will meet the same fate. Material reality wins. Always.

If feminine boys don't feel safe or able to particplate in the scouts - an organisation that purports to be inclusive and mixed sex - then the problem lies with the scouts.

If feminine boys don't feel safe or able to particplate in the scouts - an organisation that purports to be inclusive and mixed sex - then the problem lies with the scouts.

I don't believe for a minute that there are cartloads of boys who claim they're girls wanting to join the guides. This is about overturning women's and girls' spaces and rights and the TRA usual suspects (see Lisa Muggeridge's video on this) are simply targeting specific organisations one by one.

So, when you say "trans women are women", we need to hammer out what the word "woman" signifies, because clearly there is some disagreement.

This needs hammering out, really? Frankly, I believe, most people, and I mean most people globally, mean what the word signifies. (Even the English word, actually.)

Along comes the TWAW crowd and acts like this definition is invalid without providing an alternative definition. The estimated seven billion people don't need to hammer out anything. If the TWAW crowd want any alternative definition, they should do their homework, worl out their definition of 'woman' and then make their case.

I honestly see no point in playing their 'through the looking glass' games. I really don't.

YYYYYYY

It's ALWAYS stuff for women and girls that is being targeted.

They are either capitulating or being forced to close down. Once you see that, it's really sinister.

The driving force behind this is - and speaking generally here not picking any one / group out -

MRAs of the type who used to have their fun gettign women only swiming sessions shut down, even though it was a tiny amount of time + it would be fine to have a mens hour + they had no interest in men only. They just didn't want women to have anything for them only out of spite basically.

A motley crew of weirdos fetishists and perverts.

_

With orgs like GG and now time has gone on there is a larger group of parents of "trans" kids. I don't really understand why they dont' pick a mixed groups of which there are various options rather than insitsting on a single sex group but I don't think their motivations are sinister. I think they're being a bit selfish TBH but my main truck is with the two groups aboce who are really the ones pushing all this.

As someone said to me on here the other day (sorry, I can't recall who) - it's amazing how someone can be totally incapable of defining 'woman' and still know exactly who needs to STFU and move over for others.

I agree that it should be pretty obvious what the word woman means, but in these debates I see over and over and OVER that one side is saying "trans women are women" and then completely failing or refusing to explain what that sentence even means. It gets extremely annoying to read people arguing in circles around this very basic request.

So, again: PLEASE, would someone who believes TWAW and TMAM give us their definitions?? How can you assert a thing you can't explain and then get upset when people question it?

Apparently, according to AmyRhodes, transgirls are "slightly different" from girls...

Has anyone explained what will happen to Muslim girls yet?

I hear you lydiamajora, but I have come to the conclusion (courtesy some Lisa Muggeridge videos) that I refuse to validate this whole circular bull, by engaging in a discussion where the terma are not even clear.

Of course others may still want to engage (why? oh why?), so I (actually honestly) apologize, if I interfered on the dialogue front here by coming on too strong. I just couldn't help it.

Has anyone explained what will happen to Muslim girls yet?

According to Amy they just need to accept TW are female and it'll be fine.

Has anyone explained what will happen to Muslim girls yet?

According to Amy they just need to accept TW are female and it'll be fine.

And so do their parents, of course...

Apparently, according to AmyRhodes, transgirls are "slightly different" from girls...

I mean, it is all a matter of perspective, Vicky, after all humans share about 60% of genes with fruit flies. So in the grand scheme of things...

lydia It's not really a belief it's a diktat.

No worries, we're on the same page as far as the whole not-defining-terms thing goes: if you can't give even the most basic explanation of what your words mean, then there really can be no debate.

But I'm okay with being Good Cop while I still have the patience for it - give me another decade and I will likely have zero fucks to give

Why does no one on the trans activist side of things ever tell us what a woman is? Is it that they don’t know themselves, because the word has no meaning anymore?

I wonder about this too, if there's no definition of woman how the fuck do they know what a woman is and more pertinently how the fuck do they know that they feel like one????

It's so fucking stupid it makes my brain feel like it's dribbling out of my ears.