Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

@stillathing

How about ending all endemic violence regardless of who commits it?

Part of tackling a problem, understanding its causes and allocating resources involves identifying and naming the problem. The specific problem I am speaking of is violence committed by humans born male (90% of violent crimes, 98% sexual crimes - hence the use of the word endemic). Obscuring language definitions and data, whether for benign or malicious intent, will not help solve this problem.

Ostracising an entire group for the terrible acts of a tiny minority - why can't we all agree that is wrong?

Firstly when you take into account the huge range of sex based intimidation and crimes, the woeful conviction rates, the fact misogyny is not a hate crime, and the fact many, many women don't report (due to awful treatment in court, fear of not being believed / further attack and an internalised sense of shame) I am not convinced the minority of men that commit crimes against women or harass women is actually "tiny". That said most of us here continue relations with male colleagues, friends and relatives.

Secondly either you support sex segregation for some provisions and services or you don't. There is copious data to suggest it is both needed and wanted. Safeguarding works by looking at the features of the "tiny minority" and putting procedures in place to stop others with similar features doing the same. Exclusion, or "ostracising" can be a part of that.

Thirdly both view points are seeking to "ostracise" - one wants to "ostracise" trans boys from girl guides, the other trans girls.

Fourthly (is that a word?) when there is a huge systemic power imbalance, such as there is between makes and females, having a single sex environment can be good for reasons other than just safety. Think about what message girl guides are sending out by declaring themselves single gender rather than sex. The gender stereotypes for girls can be incredibly regressive and harmful. How would a girl who does not fit them feel about that, how would a gay girl feel about that or indeed a girl who is currently identifying as a trans boy or one of many other identities? It changes the ethos of guiding. Maybe that is ok, for there to be an organisation which is for the gender identity of girl. But we need to be honest about what that means.

Girls, it's not that I don't get it or that I don't want to get it.
It's just I don't agree with you.
Can you accept that many people don't agree with you?

1)Stop being so patronising.
2) I'm male.

Can you accept that many people don't agree with you?

Yes I can.

But I would at least like to see their arguments backed up with something concrete.

A definition of woman would be a start.

But, Amy, you've repeatedly said you have no intention of changing your mind. You have made your flimsy case that all the nasty things in the world would disappear if we dropped all labels and were nicer in general, and when challenged on any definition whatsoever, you've made vague assertions and insisted your whimsy was as valid as anything else.

So saying to deep that her post pointing out your lack of real engagement is not going to 'win anyone over' is a bit of an odd thing to say, really.

Amy, we get it. We totally get that you think words do not need to have meanings, because all that counts is, who has the power. We do get it. It is just not a logically grounded argument on your part. But carry on, oh Queen of hearts.

@NoSquirrels It was a genuine question 🤷🏻‍♀️

@CaptainKirkssparetupee

Apologies!

Don't let yourself feel so easily patronised.

What it tells me is that you do consider biology. But that particular phrase is a particularly belittling one and is designed to put women in their place. Not all women (natal born) have a uterus but that doesn't change the fact that they are women. You deliberately pick a part of the female anatomy than can be removed to try to be decisive.

Don't let yourself feel so easily patronised

It's not me you were patronising.

Amy, it is really pointless to ‚win over‘ anyone, who does not believe that words need to have meanings. This type of people will always go along with what is considered the current mainstream opinion. They are incapable to think for themselves, as this would require attributing meanings to words.

@BaronessEllaSaturday

I've got to admit, I was taking the piss.

Tried to be civil for the whole debate, but I confess I slipped.

@AmyRhodes I wouldn't waste your breath. You're not alone and the world is changing for the better and becoming more tolerant of all people but when you're up against the internet echo chamber any dissent is ganged up upon, beaten down and drowned out. Luckily the real world is out there and is a much more pleasant place.

Can you accept that many people don't agree with you?

Yes. It doesn’t stop me thinking that they’re not very clever and haven’t done any research at all and are busy virtue signalling and playing to the crowd of “look how right on and PC we are” without actually considering the rights of women and girls.

The thing is: male violence. Which is why women and children need safe spaces. Let's address male violence then women and children might not need sex-segregated spaces

I love this notion that bringing an argument full of facts about the importance of safeguarding and how much GG are failing in the proper implementation of it is 'beating down' the people that come along and bring the 'opposing' argument that we should all just be tolerant and nice.

Never come to a battle of wits completely unarmed.

"I understand that you cannot disclose identities of any trans members. I would rather my daughter did not share a changing room or sleeping quarters. Can we discuss this?"

This whole policy is based on fantasy by someone who probably doesn't know any actual children. It's very unlikely that no one will know who's trans. What is likely is that one of my DDs will have already said "Justin thinks he's a girl now." or "Emma's dad is a lady now". So we're meant to gaslight our children. I always try not to do that - basic parenting.

Why does no one on the trans activist side of things ever tell us what a woman is? Is it that they don’t know themselves, because the word has no meaning anymore? Or is it because the answer is rooted in sexist stereotypes and they have enough self awareness to know that this isn’t a popular view?

"AmyRhodes Wed 26-Sep-18 13:16:18
@titchy

Reaching a bit there!!!

When babies are dumped by the wayside we don't question:

"What was their sex? And their gender?""

This person has zero idea about feminism - about issues affecting women and girls around the world - and is not interested in finding out.
I would put this person in the "not a friend of women and girls" box.

How many missing millions?
"A bit of a reach"

Huh.

AmyRhodes

First of all, please do not @ me. It's not how we do things on here. Putting asterisks either side of a person's name draws their attention to it.

Secondly, I asked you why we don't just mix up the sexes all the time. Your answer - and a cynic would say you're taking the piss completely - was: If I got changed in the same changing room as my boyfriend I'd be more likely to canoodle with him. It wouldn't turn me or him into a sexual predator though.

With your boyfriend. I'm talking about teenage girls who are not in a 'relationship' with someone and well you know it. You entirely sidestepped the question with your bizarre terminology (which feckin' century are you from? I haven't heard a woman under about 90 use an expression like "canoodle" in decades) and completely stupid answer.

So tell me - why don't we make all girls and boys - in schools, for example - change, shower and sleep together on school residentials?

I can repeat the question until you come up with a proper answer if that's what you want.

I've just replied to their email about potentially withholding my daughter from residentials if they cant confirm who will be going on trips. Seems like a small step, but its all I can do at the minute.

I also said how disappointed I was with their attitude.

So to the thread....

Luckily as more people understand what this actually is common sense is coming to the forefront.

Imagination
Assumption
And what you "think" might be in place
Are not really holding water when it comes to actual safeguarding, people, rightly want information.

Nobody is trying to exclude tranpeople from anything, but cutting off all points of discussion, not giving people access to safeguarding policy, having 'reeducation' in place for any girl uncomfortable and taking rights away from another group isn't going to work.
People are not going to stand by and let it happen.

Does anyone else want to send GG a link to Cambridge Council's u-turn?

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/transgender-toilet-row-claims-city-15199314.amp?utmsource=twitter.com&utmmedium=social&utmcampaign=sharebar&twitterimpression=true

It is based on specialist legal advice on the actual law... not on any personal feelings about who is or isn't female!

If GG did this then they would have to make some fairly broad changes - either to become mixed sex or to revert to being single sex.

It is patently clear that what they are currently doing is outside the law! The EA2010 is really quite an easy read!

"AmyRhodes Wed 26-Sep-18 13:24:50
Girls, it's not that I don't get it or that I don't want to get it. "

Girls?

You are definitely on the wind up!

Witty

How can you say the world is changing for the better when this policy by GG includes transwomen/girls while it excludes transmen/boys, Sikh and Muslim girls, looked after girls, survivors of sexual assault, girls self-conscious about their bodies...etc.

In the name of inclusivity, GG are excluding a hell of a lot of people.