Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

I really hope no trans kids read this; seeing the hatred, accusations and suspicion by adults against children is awful.

I don’t hate trans kids. I’m not accusing them of anything.

I’m saying the potential for unintended consequences but not following robust transparent safeguarding procedures is huge.

An unintended consequence, no matter how well-intended the sentiments behind the changed, can still be catastrophic.

I'm sure there will be appropriate safeguarding in place so no one will be forced to shower naked with anyone or share a tent on their own with anyone they feel uncomfortable with.

You mean girls having to make alternative arrangements in what is supposed to be a female space, so that they don't share with a male?

I'm sure there will be appropriate safeguarding in place so no one will be forced to shower naked with anyone or share a tent on their own with anyone they feel uncomfortable with. I'm sure this is already in place and will continue to be.

I'm a leader, and the advice currently is

• You have no right to tell parents / other girls if a child is trans

• The trans child is to decide if they want to share facilities with the other girls, and their opinion should be respected.

So no, I don't believe adequate safeguarding practices are in place currently.

I'm sure there will be appropriate safeguarding in place so no one will be forced to shower naked with anyone or share a tent on their own with anyone they feel uncomfortable with. I'm sure this is already in place and will continue to be.

Nobody is sure of this. It's one of the key questions GG refuse to address with any clarity. Which is partly why so many parents are angry.

Our kids are thankfully a lot more tolerant than we are which makes me positive for the future.

Oh, and I will never tell my daughter that she can't be uncomfortable changing around a male because.... tolerance. Never.

@elephantinacravat since you asked here's the Scouts guidance;

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4228/gender-identity-supporting-young-people

It's framed to support the child knowing that they will be vulnerable, unsure and scared of social situations rather than assuming they are a danger to others. I wholeheartedly support this approach.

Over and out.

IceRebel so one kid trumps everyone else pretty much? And leaders too?

Over and out.

Thank you for the link.

But you are not going to stick around and back up anything you have said? Same old, same old.

WittyName4
To paraphrase your post: "I'm sure things are in place, you are all horrible for wanted proof and discussion. Let's move on."

Yes ShiteHen (love the name) that's pretty much it in a nutshell, if other girls feel uncomfortable then it's tough for them.

"young trans members should be able to share accommodation with other young members if they wish."

"the use of gendered facilities, such as toilets and showers, can be a cause of anxiety in trans young people. Members are entitled to use the facilities of the gender that they self-identify as"

"It is not a requirement - or best practice - to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event."

All taken from here

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/supporting-trans-members/

I’m only sticking my neck out because it’s important that anyone reading these threads knows that not all people are viewing all trans people as potential criminals in deciding how they should be treated.

Same here @Hideandgo I've popped up only a couple of times on these boards for the same reason. It's not fostered sensible debate from my experience.

Three of us not frightened of trans people - you, me and @WittyName4 - is actually pretty good going for MN!

I'm comforted by the responses to the GG post on Twitter. We're definitely outnumbered here, but hopefully not in society as a whole.

IceRebel that’s awful, it must be awful for you as a leader too. GG is (was) a huge thing in my family, and DD was due to start Rainbows shortly. Unfortunately I am not in any way comfortable involving her in that organisation as things stand, which is a real shame.

I’m only sticking my neck out because it’s important that anyone reading these threads knows that not all people are viewing all trans people as potential criminals in deciding how they should be treated.

What about girls who just don't want to change around anyone who isn't female? That's not an unreasonable thing is it?

What about girls from conservative religions?

not all people are viewing all trans people as potential criminals in deciding how they should be treated

Please stop turning this into a victim thing. I’ve repeatedly said (as have others) that it’s going to be the unintended consequences of a badly thought out and handled policy that will be the problem.

I don’t think trans people are ‘potential criminals’ any more than the next person.

The point isn’t to criminalise trans people. It’s to safeguard everyone.

not all people are viewing all trans people as potential criminals

No one is, however 3 people are trying to twist it to be, but have failed.

Three of us not frightened of trans people

You can add me.

I’m not frightened of trans people.

I’m extremely frightened of thought-policing, freedom of speech and language as it pertains to the law, and other issues surrounding the TRA ideology.

There's no point sticking around because the fundamental point is I think trans girls are girls and should be treated as such and the majority of the people on this thread don't.

We aren't going to change each other's minds so I've put the counter argument out there. Some will agree, some will disagree, who cares, the world is changing and we're getting old and don't always quite get it. My grandparents' generation were 'funny' about foreigners, my parents' generation were 'funny' about gay people and we don't quite get trans people but we will and times will change, albeit very slowly.

Transgirls are boy-bodied, otherwise they wouldn’t be trans,

Girls can become guide leaders at a very young age so it's hardly surprising that there is some genuine support for the GG stance within the movement. We were all idealists once.

However I expect it is actual safe-guarding and parenting experience which is behind the current condemnation, and GGHQ ignores that at it's peril.

that not all people are viewing all trans people as potential criminals

Christ alive how disingenuous can you get? NOBODY THINKS ALL TRANS PEOPLE ARE POTENTIAL CRIMINALS. NOBODY WANTS TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THEM (except GG who discriminate against trans boys).

We want dignity and privacy for biological girls who don't want to sleep or shower or talk about periods with males. That's all. Too much to ask for apparently.

Start putting females at the centre, not trans. See it from their POV.

But Witty you haven't answered the question about girls who are uncomfortable getting changed around people with male bodies?

I've put the counter argument out there.

You've not, you have stated you are sure things are in place to safeguard, but not explained how you know more than anyone else.

Elephantinacravat Exactly! I will be teaching my daughter that she has every right to say "NO" to someone with a penis. If person with a penis has a problem with that then, quite frankly, that's tough cookies.